OT - Stereo Shotgun Mics

Andy_L wrote on 10/27/2011, 3:22 PM
Anyone work with these? I'm trying to get higher quality ambient recordings in remote locations (with an xlr-input cam), and something like this looks promising:

Audio-Technica BP4029

Ideally you'd get good soundscapes in stereo, but still be able to narrow the field for dialogue, basically matching what a mono shotgun would do but also expanding its capability. Maybe??

Comments

Lou van Wijhe wrote on 10/27/2011, 4:07 PM
I think "stereo" and "shotgun" are contradictions. A directional mic is mono by definition.

Lou
Opampman wrote on 10/27/2011, 4:13 PM
Have used the AT only briefly on one shoot but I have the Sanken CSS5. It has variable pickup angle and sounds great for dialogue and well as general ambient recording. Have used it for concerts and interviews with outstanding results. You'll probably be happy with your results with the AT.

Kent
Dave McCallister wrote on 10/27/2011, 6:23 PM
The 4029 is the same as the AT835, I believe. It switches between MS and LR narrow and LR wide.

If used in MS mode, the mid channel is a standard hypercardioid shotgun. The side channel is a figure-eight which adds the difference information for stereo. You would need a software MS decoder to create usable stereo (there are VSTs that do this).

In other words, it is a real mono shotgun if you want it to be. Just hook up the gray XLR. Switching to LR in either mode converts the MS to actual stereo, at which point it is best used for ambiences.

While recording it is quite strange in the headphones (mid in one ear and side in the other). In post you can add as much width as you want by varying the S channel level. The two versions of LR in the mic simply pick different levels of the S channel.

The mic must be mounted with the word "UP" facing up to capture a true stereo image.
Sebaz wrote on 10/27/2011, 6:29 PM
The Azden SMX10 is an excellent stereo directional microphone. It's a combination hard to find, because normally audio pros want either mono directional or ambient stereo. This one is great for videographers because it picks up dialog great, while still giving you a bit of stereo for applause and things like that so events like outdoor weddings don't sound so dull. Unfortunately it only comes in 3.5mm, so if your camera only takes XLR you're screwed. They don't have an XLR version and don't bother trying adapters because I already did and you get hum.
PeterDuke wrote on 10/27/2011, 7:43 PM
"They don't have an XLR version and don't bother trying adapters because I already did and you get hum."

Are you sure that your adapter is wired correctly? You shouldn't get hum.

XLR phantom feed is normally 40V but the SMX10 requires about 2V if remotely fed. I suggest don't feed remotely but use the 1.5V battery in the mic. Alternatively, you could try a 2V Zener diode and resistor to break the voltage down.
Sebaz wrote on 10/27/2011, 10:55 PM
Yes, I bought high quality cables and adapters, but there is a hum. I didn't know the SMX10 can be fed remotely, I always use an AAA battery inside.
PeterDuke wrote on 10/28/2011, 2:09 AM
The adapter may be high quality but is it wired correctly? Can you trace out the connections and list them? The XLR signal leads are normally floating with one designated "cold" and the other "hot". Both the cold and shield should connect to the sleeve of the mic plug, while the "hot" goes to either tip or ring, depending on channel.

XLR pin connections are shown here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

My SMX10 works in my Nikon DSLR with or without a battery. The camera supplies about 2V.

Are you feeding phantom DC to the mic from your camera? If so, turn it off.
farss wrote on 10/28/2011, 2:15 AM
"Anyone work with these? I'm trying to get higher quality ambient recordings in remote locations (with an xlr-input cam), and something like this looks promising:"

I've used the Sanken CMS-10 many times. Lovely microphone that's great for stage shows and many other things. Unfortunately very expensive.
The Edirol CS-50 is probably worth a look at a much more affordable price.

Bob.



Jay Gladwell wrote on 10/28/2011, 6:50 AM

Audio-Technica refers to it as a "stereo shotgun microphone." The reference "shotgun" comes from the mic's appearance--that of a shotgun barrel. It has little to do with the mic's function.


PeterDuke wrote on 10/28/2011, 7:43 AM
The only reason I can think of to have a mic that looks like a long shotgun barrel is for strong directivity. If not, why make it long? Of course there is also marketing licence (hype)...

The SMX-10 for instance is only 18 cm long, with the acoustic part only 7 cm, so its directivity at low frequencies will be quite poor. However since it is only 1.8 cm diameter, the overall appearance is like a pop-gun I suppose. Half the length is used for housing the battery and electronics, and plays no part in its acoustic performance
Dave McCallister wrote on 10/28/2011, 8:13 AM
Jay Gladwell wrote:

Audio-Technica refers to it as a "stereo shotgun microphone." The reference "shotgun" comes from the mic's appearance--that of a shotgun barrel. It has little to do with the mic's function.

If you compare the polar patterns of the AT897 mono shotgun and the BP4029's mid channel, they are almost identical, with the 897 having a just a bit of the rear bump common to hypercardioids. Check the AT website:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/9aeff7bd1ee954dc/index.html
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/9087c643d6d7530f/index.html

I own both and find very little difference when using the 4029 as a mono mike. The common application is wireless on CH1 and shotgun on CH2 when shooting a standup.

The flexibility of the stereo function does not really limit the value of the mike for mono uses.
vtxrocketeer wrote on 10/28/2011, 9:01 AM
If all you want is excellent ambient recordings, try the stereo Audio-Technica BP4025. I have it and it is excellent. You can find a terrific review on it by Ty Ford. For dialogue it may sound a little strange, especially close up, but for ambience it is just stunning. Extremely quiet microphone.

-Steve
Andy_L wrote on 10/28/2011, 10:02 AM
Thanks for all the endorsements! Sounds like these kinds of mics would be a great solution.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/28/2011, 10:36 AM
"Sounds like these kinds of mics would be a great solution. "
What are you seeking a solution for?
Indoors, outdoors, audience events, lectures, weddings, large venue, small venue, noise factors, distance?
Shotguns come with their own special sets of considerations and technical issues, and their use as a replacement for on-subject miking is highly overrated.
I'd arrange to test one in my actual shooting environment before plopping down a grand for something I might only use rarely.
wandering journalist wrote on 10/28/2011, 1:07 PM
also another vote for the Azden... won't break the bank and great sound. I use it for field use and for interviews as well! Good on battery life too.

Dale.