OT: Studio Space Thoughts?

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 7:12 AM

I'd like to hear how some other people have handled moving from home studio (pretty much just post-pro) to an actual building with some production and post-production space. I can't actually justify making the move financially, but I feel that at some point you just have to roll the dice. I'm tired of bringing potential clients to the "home studio" and truthfully, I work better away from the distractions of home. I realize that an actual sound stage is a hard thing to justify, but a place to throw a green-screen and lights would be enough for starters. I'd need an office or two to set up edit rooms, and an area for storage, plus a small shooting area.

Me: most of my income comes from doing IT work as a contractor for an established business. Up side - my hours are flexible. Neg Side - I'm starting to get stuck in a rut as this is a career I never thought I'd be doing for such a long time. So in a way, I'd be using my IT job to pay for (what I'm calling) studio space.

I've never been a fan of the "build it and they will come" school of thought, so I'm not expecting more business to generate itself just because my overhead increases. Logic tells me to get more space only as needed, but I feel to generate more business I'll need a better locale (I know it's really the work that counts and not the equipment or studio). I know a few people in my corner of the world that *I think* I could partner with if I had some space... but I guess that is another thread all together.

I know this is a super subjective, no one size fits all, question, but I'd be fascinated to hears a couple of stories about the start of your successful (or not so) business ventures outside of the home.

Thanks in advance...
Jeff

(p.s. I also posted this question over on the business and marketing area of creative cow, if interested)

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/15/2006, 7:55 AM

Jeff, I've seen too many folks who felt like, sooner or later, they had to move into "studio space" and drown. The overhead is enormous! You have rent, utilities, insurance, etc., and that's due regardless of what income you have or not. I've seen more video businesses come and go because the overhead had caused them to sink like a rock.

Why create such massive expense when you don't have to or need to?

I use the "home studio" as a selling point. I can undercut anyone in town simply because I do not have the overhead the "studio-bound" companies do. If a project needs a sound stage, I rent it!

The space alone--the square footage--you're talking about getting will run you thousands of dollars a month (depending on your location).

I tell folks, if you want to pay for impressive office space in addition to the expense of making your video, then we're not for you.

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 8:57 AM

Jay, thanks for your frank reply. The cost is certainly key and I've looked at places that are affordable, but would be way too ghetto to bring clients to. So in that sense, it wouldn't help my cause. The other reason I'm looking to get some additional space is that it would double as an art project area. To clarify, a buddy of mine and I have talked about doing another stop-motion animation film. It's basically a suicide mission (the last animation project turned my into a smoker and heavy drinker) and these things that takes months and months to accomplish anything. His wife will not tolerate us turning his living room or basement into a studio (again) and I don't have the space myself. So if I could find an industrial or warehouse location that is somewhere between ghetto and nice, it might work since I'd be maintaining my day job doing IT stuff to fund it. Looking at it from a film budget perspective - I need to rent space for this planned animation, so my thought is to try and figure out a way to do both. But then you get into the mixing business with pleasure dilemma.

There was a large production company here in MD that went under a few years ago. Talking with the former owner, he basically said a sound stage / studio is the white elephant of the industry. You always pay rent and utilities on it, yet it's almost impossible to keep booked. His thought is that it acts as a loss leader, so be prepared to make money elsewhere. With that said, he has tons of lightening and grip gear in storage that I could use to equip my space in return for storing the stuff for him. I guess a lot of this is market dependent.

Well, I guess I need to get some lottery tickets and hope I can win enough to cover me if things start going sideways.

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 11:27 AM

What about purchasing vs. renting? Assuming one could secure a facility in a good location it seems that purchasing the building would be superior than renting. If the business goes belly up in 2 years, you sell the building and at least break even. This would help nullify the white elephant issue since the building would now be an investment instead of overhead.

Anyone tried this, I mean, other than a house?

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/15/2006, 11:44 AM

What about purchasing vs. renting? Assuming one could secure a facility in a good location it seems that purchasing the building would be superior than renting.

Not based upon your scenario.

The costs involved in commercial property makes buying a home look like child's play. This is not something to be taken lightly, and with the real estate market entering into another transition right now, this would not be the time to try to play games. You're betting on too many assumptions!

Two years is nowhere near enough time to put anyone into a "break even" point. The cost of investing in a building, legal fees, insurance, taxes, furnishing it, etc,... Man, you're talking about millions of dollars!

Dan Sherman wrote on 3/15/2006, 11:59 AM

Have you thought about sharing studio space with, say a photogrpaher, graphics designer or another video person or someone in a related field?
Share services and clients?
Just a thought.
I too am looking forward to GOING to work again.
Am also thankful for pragmatists like Jay! (and my wife)

jaydeeee wrote on 3/15/2006, 12:00 PM

I work with a many musicians and know many artists (and welders, sculptors, etc.).

While many of the musicians are able to turn a portion of the home (usually lower half/basement or separate mother-in-law house) into a working/profitable business, many of those needing space have found partnering in on RENTING a workspace or industrial loft space, etc. the better route (as opposed to buying).
But these guys really NEED the space and are WORKING man, nearing the point to having to turn new clients away until later dates.

Be honest with yourself. Do you REALLY fall into this category? Why buy when you can test the waters renting for a year or two first?

BTW: you are gaurenteed nothing in resale when buying unless you live in a city/area where that market is always hot. It could be a financial nightmare.

But, I gotta say...stop motion project here, another project there? Do it all in your (or one of your buddies, anybody's) home studios man. If you were cranking out work for many clients with near backlog success I'd say it's time to open shop, but in your case it doesn't sound this way.

Save the grief and $ until it SCREAMS necessity to buy a shop.

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 12:01 PM

Thanks for the feedback Jay_Gladwell.

I'm certainly not talking about a million dollar facility - perhaps I overstated my original goals. But I know you mean, the payments form the first two years of a 30yr mortgage wouldn't even touch the principle.... so I guess that's not an advantage. Good point.

Jeff

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 12:13 PM

Jaydeee and Sherman, I appreciate your thoughts. I guess I do have people to share studio space with, just someone needs to actually step up and get some space. And I certainly don't trust these criminal artists to help pay my rent, that's why I want to know I can do it on my own ;-)

Like I said, I'm not talking about a million dollar facility and I'm not even talking about quitting the day job... just a place to spread out.

I guess you guys have really helped me look at this in a different way. I needed a reality check.

Thanks.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/15/2006, 12:17 PM

Jeff, here in Miami, for example, 2,000 square feet of commercial space in the broader downtown area would run between $7000,000 to $1million dollars. That's just the empty office space!

Commercial rentals start at about $15 per square foot.

I can't imagine Baltimore is that much different.

SimonW wrote on 3/15/2006, 12:57 PM

It all depends on where you are. I am moving into a new space out of the home in May. But my facility is out in the countryside and is dirt cheap, Some conversion will be neccesary. There is an extra overhead in having to rent studio space. But speaking for myself I find I get too easily distracted when working from home. And I want to actually have to drive somewhere. I don't want to be couped up in the house all day.

If I was in a big city however I doubt I would bother renting a place because the rates are far too high. Out in the countryside in the UK the insurance rates are low because of the low risk, and the space I be putting the edit suite into is very cheap.

jkrepner wrote on 3/15/2006, 1:15 PM

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of working with some other people in a co-op fashion and splitting some studio space, like what was recommended to me here and some other places.

It is all about location, location, location. In my mind, I'd be interested in warehouse/industrial space more so than an office park, per se. For example, I found a 1,500 sft. warehouse for about $1100 per month + utilities that has 2/3 offices already built. It's in a safe neighborhood, but certainly not in a convenient location and a bit of a drive outside of the city and I don't need that much room by myself. There is some loft type structures in the arts district in Baltimore, but that can be a bit of rough area for bringing clients, but they'd be fine for just "art" projects.

.

johnmeyer wrote on 3/15/2006, 1:26 PM

What about purchasing vs. renting? Assuming one could secure a facility in a good location it seems that purchasing the building would be superior than renting.

Talk to your accountant. There used to be all sorts of neat things you could do by buying the property as an individual and then renting or leasing it out to the business you own.

As for home vs. business, the home business means you never get away from work. I've been doing it that way far too long. I'd never do it again, if I had a choice. Also, if you can take on a partner or partners, assuming they are good people, the creative energy and the social aspect of constantly being with other people is a good thing. Working at home can be a very alienating experience at times.

Just make sure you do a really detailed spreadsheet, with all those expenses mentioned earlier, to make sure you can really cover all the extra fixed expenses you'll now have to cover. These expenses, of course, are deductible.

The earlier post about subletting or sharing space is an excellent one. I know all sorts of people that do that (it is what I did for the first office space I rented for my first business). The rates for this kind of arrangement can be close to free in some cases. This is especially true if you have a landlord for whom you can barter or trade services.

Liam_Vegas wrote on 3/15/2006, 10:25 PM

Jeff

I moved from my home "studio" to a shared production facility about 4 months ago. I now have a much larger work space than I had at home.

Best freakin decision I have made!!!

Business has lifted off.

In fact just last week I completed what was the largest project I have done so far (everyone in the production facilty I am in was a part of the project). That project would have been impossible had I not made the move. When I got the call from the potential new client - being within a larger production facility gave me the confidence to tackle a much larger project than I would have attempted previously.

I see now that working from home for me was actually constraining my creativity and view of what I could achieve.

I had so many reasons in my head why I could not (and should not) move out. Cost was one of the reasons why I did not move (hey - how much better than FREE can you get?).

Once I found a way to disregard all the reasons I had for not making the move - the way forward was crystal clear.

I've not regretted the move. It was LIBERATING.

I hope you find the answer you are looking for - I suspect you already know anyway :-)

(oh... and I forgot to say... like you I am also an IT consultant.. and I still use that side of my skill set to supplement my growing video production business. I used to feel that I was cheating myself whenever I did work using my "old" skills (even though I often get paid a higher rate than for video work)... however I now look at that side completely differently - and I enjoy the video production and the IT consulting equality. Perhaps one day the video stuff with become successful enough on it's own.. bit for now.. I love the variety).

Yoyodyne wrote on 3/15/2006, 10:44 PM

That's funny Liam, I just did the exact same thing. Moved out of my house and into an office with a buddy. We actually got a pretty good deal on a loft in one of those cool old converted buildings in a prestigious part of town.

Happened at just the right time because I am now working on a huge project and having clients coming over all the time to sit in on edits, etc. It's so nice not having them come over to my house and cramming themselves into my bedroom edit suite. It's funny how an office changes people's perception of you. I'm the same guy doing the same stuff but everybody seems to be taking me more seriously - I guess we should know better than most that perception is reality.

Our little business plan was to get a year lease that we could pay for with our current level of work and if the office didn't earn it's keep it's back to the house. Of course quantifying how the office earns it's keep is a bit tricky, but we are judging by how it changes current clients perception of us, if/how we can land some new ones & how it adds to our workflow/efficiency. Basically if the revenue steam isn't increased by a significant factor over the added expense - we are going to dump it after a year....

Which would suck cause It is awesome having an office.

richard-courtney wrote on 3/16/2006, 7:08 AM

In planning your new space be sure to include some space away from windows and outer walls for voice-overs. Look at past posts
about sound recording rooms.

Wes C. Attle wrote on 3/16/2006, 7:48 AM

I volunteered SoundForge Noise Reduction and set time to a Producer here in Tokyo last year who dedicated two years of his life to produce a documentary (http://www.azenlife-film.org/). Of course he had to sacrafice his normal projects. So the studio overhead became a real weight. But he still kept half of the studio because you just can't do your best work with assistants, partners, and clients at home. It's just not possible.

I say follow your dreams! Just get the smallest space possible. Cramped studios look cool anyway.

jkrepner wrote on 3/16/2006, 8:38 AM

Ben1000 wrote on 3/16/2006, 8:55 AM

Howdy...

I just recently moved into a new studio space here in Phoenix, AZ. I had been hoping to move from my home studio (which I still use when I want to be home near the kids), but had waiting until I saw that I was turning away enough business that moving into the space would be justified. I'm sure glad I'm there now, but am also happy that I didn't move sooner.

I'd also been putting money aside for the last couple of years from each project to make the move easy. With the money I'd saved (separate from my normal savings), the move took nothing out of my normal operating budget. True, I've had to delay some other purchased because of my 'savings', but it's worth it in the end.

If you're interested, here are some preliminary pics that I took just after the tenant improvements were put in:

http://www.rooproductions.com/roostudio

Part of my plan (although I've been too busy to pursue lately) was to rent the space out to a select few friends who may need it in the area. I don't want to offer public rentals, becuase I am too protective of my 'stuff', but I do some work with some videographers out here who might be able to use it. If anyone needs work done in PHX or lives out here, feel free to email...

My advice: Move into a space when you are turning away enough business to support it, and start saving NOW for that day so you have your move-in costs paid for.

Best,

Ben

boomhower wrote on 3/16/2006, 1:05 PM

Hi Ben...nice place/pics. One question for you:

Is that an Ultra HD Enclosure on your desk (just right of the monitor)? If so, how do you like it? I saw a deal on those and had considered picking one up. Would you recc them?

Keith

edit: spelling (my keyboard kant spel)

jkrepner wrote on 3/16/2006, 1:33 PM

Hey Ben, that's what I call a studio. Ah, roll up doors. So nice. I hate carrying C-stands up the basement steps. I hate it!

Your advise was also appreciated.

Thanks.

Jeff

Ben1000 wrote on 3/16/2006, 2:44 PM

It is an Ultra HD enclosure. It's cheap, and a little loud, but it works. I use it mostly for shuttling stuff back and forth. I have recently purchased, however, a couple of coolmax enclosures which I prefer becuase not only are they compatible with IDE and SATA drives, but they also have USB, Firewire and SATA interfaces on the rear. Very versatile...

Not quite as cheap, however...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817146057

Best,

Ben

Ben1000 wrote on 3/16/2006, 2:47 PM

Incidentally, one exciting project I have coming up in that space is a weekly video podcast called "Neo-Fight.tv". First episode comes out April 16th, and it's all about technology from both a geek and non-geek point of view.

It'll be entirely edited on Vegas. Should be good fun. I'll make a post about it in a couple of weeks.

Best,

Ben

Liam_Vegas wrote on 3/16/2006, 4:05 PM

Liam_Vegas, very inspiring post. Are you trying to tell me something? I feel that my current situation is uninspiring, too distracting, and doesn't make me feel confident. As dumb as it sounds, I think I'd just feel better having clients come to a physical building rather than in the basement of my home. Plus, separation can be a good thing.

The separation from home/work has been useful - and I no longer hesitate to meet with a client at my production office. It helps from every angle.

Much of the benefit was definitely to my own "transformation" which occurred as a result of making this move. It did give me more confidence. I felt "stuck" in my home office environment. I now know that I need the ability to just get up out of my chair for a few minutes and chat with others. I found the isolation at home quite stifling.

Of course - all this is nothing more than my personal experience - but I could definitely see a strong parallel between what you are describing for yourself and what was/is going on with me.

How did you go about getting people to share a facility with? I think a co-op is the way to go, but that would necessitate a larger location, as in, larger risk.

I moved into a spare office within an already established production facility. I met the owner a few years back - they do complimentary services to mine - and although there is some cross-over in services that has not been any barrier to sharing the space.

If you can - join some local media group in your area and start networking. That should help you find people with complimentary skills - and/or a production facility that is looking to rent out space.

Check out your local Media Communications Association - or other professional body.

Bob Greaves wrote on 3/16/2006, 8:16 PM

It makes more sense to buy a new house with a business entrance. Many homes have been modified for gramma or grampa. The separate entrance can easily accomodate a buiness without extending the cost of home ownership.