Sounds nice but (Big BUT imho) it's AVCHD. :'( Isn't there a less-compressed format out there that the drive-based cameras can record to? I guess you get get an HDV VCR to hook up to it or go directly to your computer (via the HDMI) but those require more stuff to lug around.

I don't have the $$ though & I'd expect at that price point, you'd have the $$ you would need to use it properly. :)

EDIT: side not, I had "Big B_U_T_T" (removed underscores) & the forum replaced it with ****. :?

Sounds nice but (Big BUT imho) it's AVCHD. :'(

A very reasonable concern, but Paul says:
"It records in AVCHD at up to 29 Mbit/sec, but looks better than Canon’s HDSLR H.264 encoder at a higher bandwidth..."

The next step up is to use one of the now many tiny "clamp-on recorders" that can record the FS-100's 4:2:2 output to an uncompressed or minimally compressed codec.

The least expensive one is the BMD HyperDeck Shuttle which records 8-bit or 10-bit uncompressed SD or HD video to plug-in 2.5" SSDs from HDMI and SDI (with pass-through of course).

Not bad for $345.00.

It has uncompressed 4:2:2 8 bit output via HDMI, which is an added cost for a recorder but one that is embraced by many (e.g. EX1/3 & Nanoflash). Has very good http://blog.abelcine.com/low light performance[/link] and great image quality (http://philipbloom.net/2011/05/05/bloomshootout/comparison tests[/link]). Has all the control of DoF of Super 35, so for those currently lumping around "35mm DoF Adapters" this is a better, lighter and cheaper bit of kit. That the FS100 doesn't have in-built NDs is a deterrent for some, and perhaps its configuration is not designed for hand holding (although a handle is available). There are adapters for a wide variety of lenses (or will be), which gives options for getting started without spending a lot on the overall package. A very interesting product, but maybe not to be rushed.

Yes, we discussed the HyperDeck and the cost of SSDs.

from hyperdeck...

Unparalleled File Compatibility

open format? universally compatible? maybe dv, avi, and some others, but quicktime 'open'

as an aside, i do love this drive for the perfect picture, but i'd like even more a drive for better content ;-)

*seems the rush is to produce higher quality free content for youtube...

Quicktime and avi are wrappers, like "standardized envelopes."

They contain codecs such as dv or uncompressed at various levels, although even "dv" comes in many flavors.

Quicktime is available for Windows, Mac, Linux, and works with all NLEs.

There are a few more choices for wrappers, but QT seems the most practical for this.

The FS-100 sensor is 2x the size of the Panasonic AF100 sensor, so much greater potential for limited DOF, which is good for scripted but not so hot for spontaneous documentary work.

Canon's XF300/305 are stunning cameras also for a few thousand dollars more, but they have 1/3" sensors so "everything will be sharp" compared to the FS-100's Super DOF effect. The picture quality is stunning though (and approved for 100% use on BBC programs), and the camera LCD is in its own league for clarity and ability to judge the image.

2.5" SSDs cost from $69.99 (32GB) up to $4,400 (1TB).

(Note that 8-bit 1080p24 takes up 334 GB/hour, 10-bit ditto 445 GB/hour, that gives you the recording time. Makes you wish for high-spec ProRes or DNxHD real quick.)

If I was looking at that type of camera I'd definately save up the dollars and buy the F3.
I'm not even so certain that Sony will sell a heap of the FS100s to be honest. The people who want that class of camera have probably already bought the F3, they've sold quite well down here.

Bob.

Definitely Bob; why the heck are you always right ?!!!

;)

I guess the FS100 is too much a compromise. It would probably do as a B camera for my EX1, but definitely not as a replacement .

For the latter, I'd need to be saving a long time - and get the F3...

Piotr

camera outputs 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 uncompressed from HDMI... can record full 1080P HD at 60fps with sound.

nice.

Yes - definitely nice. But a little well...esoteric?

It doesn't have ND filters or HD-SDI, its PPs are very limited.

And its DSP is too obviously limited when compared with the PMW series (F3 included).

Piotr

If I was looking at that type of camera I'd definately save up the dollars and buy the F3.

If you can afford to spend nearly four times as much, why not just skip the F3 and go directly to the Sony F65?

:O)

The FS100 has the same (identical) Super35 sensor as the F3, but the DSPs are not of the same caliber (that costs money). This also limits what you can do with its PPs (no knee control, etc. like on the higher level lovely F3).

It's not just the lack of ND filters that makes this camera unsuitable for handheld use on its own (without a DSLR-style "cage"). It really begs for a matte box where you can plug in ND filters, and rods for installing accessories.

The whole thing is more like RED in that way, it's certainly not an ENG camera...

HD-SDI would have been nice, but they either didn't have the space for BNC jacks, or they wanted to profile it a bit vis-à-vis the F3.

I don't see any competition overall in its price range (US$5K without the crappy standard lens), but it certainly has some minor limitations. Something has to give to get the price down to this level.

here are some links to download files I shot in the UK when I did a quick review

55Mb
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0bNEG_bEepqZjAxZjgzNmYtZGQ2Ny00OWY4LWIwZjYtMzBjMmVmY2VjYWVh&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

59Mb
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0bNEG_bEepqZjFhYzkxNmUtZjEyOC00ZDFhLWJmMzgtNjE4NTY3MWZhMWYw&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

Zcheema said:
"here are some links to download files I shot in the UK when I did a quick review"

Nice feline, looks like he's used to be close to the lens.



Course said:
"If you can afford to spend nearly four times as much, why not just skip the F3 and go directly to the Sony F65?"

Not a trivial question to me.
I look at the overall cost of owning a functional package including good lenses. When I look at that cost the difference going from the F65 to the F3 makes is significant, going down to the FS100 it's not so big a deal. The F3 with the 3 Sony kit primes is a pretty reasonable package although the kit lenses are very good value for the money they're still not in the same class as the Ultraprimes which seem to be the sweet spot for most people. So factor in the cost of a set of those and I think you'll see where I'm coming from.

What also attracts me to the F3 is Sony's plans to bring out servo zoom lenses for it. They could be a game changer for people who want to put cameras on cranes etc.

Bob.

I see the reason so many devices are supporting quicktime files these days isn't due to some alleged technical merit, but more that mac folk are more turnkey than PC users.

That's definitely true. They are more focused on the creative side of shooting, post, etc., and they have little interest in spending time on programming and hacking avisynth etc.

There are Mac geeks who truly enjoy the Unix that is built-in to OS X, and they thrive on using the EMACS shortcuts that have been around "since the beginning of time" (Unix time of course :O).

Both quicktime and avi are legacy technoloies that are becoming painfully long in the tooth.

Apple is coming out with a successor soon, utilizing the latest technology that is already in OS X, including what's in the OS X 10.7 Lion version about to be released in a few weeks (possibly even next week).

Is Microsoft working on an equivalent? Impossible to say as long as Ballmer is constipating the creativity there (although the new development groups that are purposely kept outside the Soviet-like bureaucracy of the Office and Windows groups' thick layers of middle management are doing great work).

The F3 with the 3 Sony kit primes is a pretty reasonable package although the kit lenses are very good value for the money they're still not in the same class as the Ultraprimes which seem to be the sweet spot for most people. So factor in the cost of a set of those and I think you'll see where I'm coming from.

Sure, but then we are not comparing ourselves with a $5,000 body that can use a few DSLR lenses we already own (and can use even rented Ultraprimes any time thanks to the PL mount adapter).

If money was no object, I'd stand in line for the F3. It actually costs less than my SD camera cost new.

One thing that intrigues me are the polarised views that this camera seems to generate. People seem to feel insulted that Sony hasn't satisfied all their desires. Anyone who suggests this camera might be a good thing will receive a barrage of negative responses from people who haven't had their hands on the machine. On DVinfo there are (were) arguments by people who hadn't used it against users who praised it. I haven't got anywhere near the device, so I can't comment on what it is like to use or how well it might serve my purposes. I think it looks interesting and I've got 3 Zeiss primes that might make it into a nice package. Pity it doesn't have an optical TTL viewfinder, which would be higher on my priorities than in-built NDs. Bob's view is a practical one in terms of hiring gear out, and those who have had hands-on have observed that its high button density is a bit awkward. Indeed I would like an F3, but reckon that would be over-capitalising my resources. There are a lot of people shooting video on DSLRs, which are much less user-friendly than the FS100.

I handled it at Sony's NAB booth.

Yes, it's small. That's good for some situations, but the buttons are small.

This is basically a camera for those who would really like an F3 but can't afford the extra $12,000 on top of the $5K for the FS100.

If you can live with its minor limitations, you get a lot for the money.

You want an optical TTL viewfinder? Save up for an ARRI Alexa.
Totally bee's knees, if you can get one.

Is there any camera under even $30K with an optical viewfinder?

I have a DP friend who is using the Alexa to shoot feature films. He loves the PQ, but finds that he often needs a smaller camera for car interiors, etc.

Here's some practical and fairly positive info on the optional kit lens for the FS100 (for those who don't have a collection of Master Primes in their gear bags):

Should you buy the Sony FS100 Kit Lens?

Looks like you've got Ballmer naiIed down. MS needs new blood - they can no longer rely on waiting for someone else to invent something then pull the rug out from under them.

Whether or not Apple's new technology is of use on the PC platform depends on how its implemented, and exclusionary implementation is an area where MS and Apple have been alike; then again, who knows?

Best to wait and see, I guess.

......They are more focused on the creative side of shooting, post, etc.,

yep as soon as i got my macbook pro back in december I saw things much clearer ,, my work became better, and my wife now cooks me dinner,,,life is so much more, my phone is ringing off the hook etc...
I do like it

I believe that Apple, for sure, pays attention to 'creative' types. It's been their approach for a very long time. But it's a tradeoff. You can make something 'turnkey', but the tradeoff is flexibility (and by extension, creativity). It's somethibng of a paradox.

These days, Apple is mostly marketing, if it ever wasn't. The iphone and ipod are shining examples, OSX too. Nothing new from a technical standpoint that wasn't already there. But, apple is a master at the PR game.

It should be interesting to see how the new FCP goes. They're definetly approaching it as turnkey, and brealking some conventions along the way - whereas the current FCP appears to be more 'functional', but also more difficult.

The old 'Apple vs MS' show is always interesting. It helps to have an understanding software development, technology, marketing, and the historic practices of these companies.