OT: Tripod recommendations needed

smhontz wrote on 2/12/2006, 1:15 PM
I work for a church that meets in a school. Every week we have to setup / teardown / store all of our equipment. We use two Sony VX2100s for our video projects, and we also use them for IMAG at our services.

When we started out, we didn't have much of a budget, so we bought two cheaper tripods. We bought two Davis & Sanford Pro Vista Video Tripod with FM18 Fluid Head from B & H (Mfr# PROVISTA7518 • B&H# DAPVT75) for $200 each, sight unseen. They seemed pretty sturdy and we liked that they had two control arms, which makes it easier for the camera operators.

However, after using them for a while, we're pretty much not thrilled with them. The head is laid our very poorly - the various controls, like the tighteners for the control arms, interfere with each other. So, you can't tighten the camera shoe without moving the control arm. And bits of the metal used in positioning the control arms have broken out, some of the locking knobs used to set the legs in position have fallen off, the head doesn't seem as tight anymore, etc. This is after 8 months of usage - basically 6 hours of use every weekend.

So, we're looking to upgrade to something that will hold up better. Something where the control don't interfere with each other, and, preferably something with dual arms. Probably in the $500 apiece range.

Any suggestions? Secondly, anyone know of good stores in the Phoenix area where we can try some out? Thirdly, are tripods something one would see at NAB?

As a side note, I have this Velbon Vel-flo 10 PH-268 tripod I got some 20 years ago from a video guy going out of business. The thing is a tank and everything is as tight and functional as it was 20 years ago.

Comments

jrazz wrote on 2/12/2006, 1:38 PM
Wow! I have a similar model from Davis & Sanford and have been using it for over 2 years on a regular basis and have had no problems with the way it was built. What are you guys doing with them?! I know that sometimes when someone doesn't buy something with there own money, they tend not to appreciate it as much as if they had labored to purchase the item. I am not implying that this is what happened, but six months and now they are shot seems very extreme.

I would hope that before you all shell out 1,000 dollars on a couple new ones, you look into how they are being cared for as I would hate for 2 more, more expensive, pods to be worthless in 6 months.

Just a thought.

j razz
smhontz wrote on 2/12/2006, 1:50 PM
Well, the tripods go into the heavy canvas bags they came with, and they get put into our sound booth after the last service. Then the whole booth goes into a closet until next weekend. So, they may get jostled around a bit. And, it's different volunteers helping to put stuff away each week.

The biggest issue is the tightening knobs for things like the control arms and the shoe and the tilt that all interfere with each other. I can't imagine how they came up with that scheme. And the leg knobs are held on by litlle 1/4" screws that if they get stripped (one did - I don't know how) then the knob is now totally useless.

I'm pretty disappointed with them - as I said, they seemed pretty sturdy when we got them, but they just haven't stood the test of time.
craftech wrote on 2/12/2006, 3:35 PM
For what the cost the Bogen/Manfrotto tripods are a favorite among videographers and photographers alike.
I have the 3221WN-501 kit. I paid a little less than the site I linked so it pays to shop around.
If that is too expensive Velbon is still a good bet. You can always hang some additional weight from the center of a less expensive tripod to steady it more if you shoot a lot of zoomed in shots.

John

Just checked Central Camera where I bought mine. The link I gave above is cheaper and after checking around that seems like the lowest price. Best Things is a reputable vendor by the way.
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/12/2006, 4:21 PM
Is it just me, or is it total coincidence that the "Best Things" website echoes B&H's in color and layout?
craftech wrote on 2/12/2006, 4:33 PM
Actually B&H has a brown logo and green headers. Best Things has an ongoing left menu for all their pages, red lettering for titles, and are based in Virginia. I have called them before and they are in fact in Virginia. The woman who answered had a British accent.
Either way, they are both well respected vendors.

John
johnmeyer wrote on 2/12/2006, 7:54 PM
This month's Studio magazine has a very long article on tripods, starting on Page 54. Here's a link to their web site, in case you don't get the magazine:

Studio Monthly
farss wrote on 2/12/2006, 10:43 PM
Buy Miller!
OK, I'm biased as their factory is very close by, even closer than the Rode factory.....
But seriously the Miller Solo is very hard to beat. Add the head from the DS10 and you're set. This tripod has no spreaders so it's very easy to setup and pulldown and you can have the legs at different angles and lengths, that can be very handy.
They're very solidly built but like anything you can with extreme abuse break bits but you can buy spare parts, easily.
If anyones really stuck for a spare part for a Miller tripod, I'd be only too happy to drive down the road for you.
Bob.
Grazie wrote on 2/12/2006, 11:40 PM
Miller 10 Solo here.

Anybody who has seen the "spaces" and venues I shoot in will understand what I am saying. Been on demolition sites; up the sides of 15 storey building lifts; rocky country-sides; uneven landscapes - I've even "set-up" on a pile of builder's rubble! Having the "bubble" on the bowl makes my shots "level-on-the-bevel!"

Using the legs independently of each other was a total revelation for me.

. .oh yes! And it WAS Bob that put me wise to the Miller. And yes Bob, I may have a wish for an accessory! Get the car outta the drive!

-g

johnmeyer wrote on 2/12/2006, 11:55 PM
Question for you tripoders: When filming stage productions and setting up in the balcony, I sometimes have to (or choose to) film from one side or the other, instead of dead center. Are there tricks to get the camera and tripod aligned so that when I swing left/right everything "looks" right (i.e., everything is level and plumb)? The bubble level on my tripod long ago bit the dust, and the head and mount probably are not perfectly plumb with the rig anyway.

I just figured there might be a trick or two that someone with more experience might be able to pass along.
Grazie wrote on 2/13/2006, 12:35 AM
I'll bet there is really neat way . ..

"Are there tricks to get the camera and tripod aligned so that when I swing left/right everything "looks" right " . . .er? Okay . . When I'm rushed I "plumb" for a building vertical. Pan left and find one. Pan right and find another. Go back and forth and keep splitting the difference. Get that to match with edge of frame - remove any Wide Angle lens/adaptor first though! I find people "tend" to stand vertically - but DON'T try this in a pub! LOL!

I've got 16:9 horiz guides on my XM2 and I can use these for a more than decent horizon to "align" with a builder's built horiz. Apart from that, see if you can repair or get a replacement "bubble".

-g

smhontz wrote on 2/13/2006, 9:12 AM
Thanks for the link to the article. It was, very, uh, eye-opening. Ok, seriously, I must be very ignorant because I can't see why an "inexpensive" tripod starts at $1000. There's no way I'm going to be able to convince the church that we need a $1000 tripod. (Two of them, at that.)
mbryant wrote on 2/13/2006, 9:30 AM
Tripods have a huge range of price and performance.... You mention you have a Velbon which is "built like a tank", maybe consider a Velbon DV-7000? I've looked at these and to me they are very impressive for the money. I'm sure not in the same class as a Miller etc, but good value I believe. $110 at B&H.

Inbetween.... Manfrotto?



johnmeyer wrote on 2/13/2006, 11:26 AM
I find people "tend" to stand vertically - but DON'T try this in a pub!

Now that's good.

The left/right vertical split the diff is pretty close to what I've been doing, although I've often been doing more with the horizontal (e.g., the stage itself). I'll try the vertical thingy when I do a fashion show in April.
farss wrote on 2/13/2006, 1:34 PM
Look at it this way.
A good tripod is an investment, a camera is an expense.
We've got several first generation Miller tripods, would you believe the legs are wood. They're worth as much today as a new Miller, I'd imagine the same goes for Satchlers etc.
We've also had Daiwa tripods, all gone, now we've got Libecs for the 'cheap' end of the business, they wear out, we buy more, we get a ROI on them so that's OK. Of course the Millers work better, period and they'll keep on working and making a return on our investment.
Why does the good stuff cost so much, you only sell one of them once to a client, there's no repeat business. Think about that as a business model, the better your product the less repeat business you get. Cameras on the other hand will wear out even if technolongy doesn't make them obsolete before that happens.
Bob.
corug7 wrote on 2/13/2006, 2:25 PM
I use the Vinten badged version of the Bogen/Manfrotto 501. Only thing different is the pan arm and the badge. It is very sturdy and my only real complaint is if it sits in one position too long (20 - 40 mins) it sticks a little when you first start a pan. Otherwise, it's the best tripod head you'll get for $130.00.
Serena wrote on 2/13/2006, 2:46 PM
I've been reading all these comments with great interest because I've been thinking of getting a new tripod. My present one is an old Miller I bought 15 years ago for $150 (probably new in the 60s) and it's a bit heavy because it was designed for weighter cameras. When I sent the fluid head to Miller for servicing the guys there were too young to have seen that model, but it came back in beautiful working order. However when I check out the weight of tripods with 100mm ball sockets, they're only 1 Kg lighter than mine with wooden legs and that weight reduction isn't significant. Yes, I could get a lighter fluid head. However reading reviews and checking prices has given me renewed appreciation for my old rugged Miller.
farss wrote on 2/13/2006, 3:16 PM
I Kg is a LOT of weight if you've got to carry it a long way.
Funny thing though is how the ultra modern carbon fibre is appreciated because of its similarities to wood.

Apart from the weight, the Solo is a lot easier to handle compared to the woodies.

Bob.
Serena wrote on 2/13/2006, 4:45 PM
I agree about the weight. I started the "think new tripod" when I debated with myself about carting it a Km for a shot. Of course the 35mm camera weight head is also a Kg heavier. Obviously I'll have to check out the Solo - I'm a bit biased towards the truss-type of leg design (for torsional rigidity) but nothing worse than judging on assumptions. I like the wooden legs for setting up in water -- survive it very well and very easily cleaned.
farss wrote on 2/13/2006, 6:17 PM
A few things about the Solo.
1) It doesn't have the dual spikes on the bottom of the legs, rather the screw down bumpers / single spike. This may be better or not. Some dolly systems rely on the dual spikes to lock the tripod on with a big rubber latch.
2) Unlike some of our cheaper tripods whatever the thread and 'nut' inside the bumper is made of it resists rusting extremely well. Our cheaper tripods need regular unjamming and lubrication in that area. Note note people, just drying salt water off is not good enough, wash it under a tap for a minute to get rid of the salt!
3) The Solo goes a higher than other tripods, can be a real life saver.
4) The absense of spreaders doesn't seem to affect rigidity and makes the thing so much easier to setup and pull down. However the leg latching systems does take a bit of getting used to. Once you have the knack however being able to set the legs at different angles and heights is a real life saver.
5) The Solo seems to end up shorter when all folded up, I've had no problem slinging it over my shoulder with the supplied and very comfortable strap. I can have camera in one hand and tripod over shoulder and rig the tripod with one hand, put the camera on the sticks without putting it down. In a crowded location that could save a camera from being stolen.
Bob.
craftech wrote on 2/13/2006, 7:33 PM
When filming stage productions and setting up in the balcony, I sometimes have to (or choose to) film from one side or the other, instead of dead center. Are there tricks to get the camera and tripod aligned so that when I swing left/right everything "looks" right (i.e., everything is level and plumb)?
===========
Tilt it so that when you zoom in the image frame is parallel to the stage apron or bottom of the curtain. When you zoom out it is noticeable, but if you shoot closely cropped like I do, it is mostly level and looks "right" or as right as you can get under the circumstances.

I often ask for seats just above an entrance ramp if they exist and are closer to center. Then I shoot over the ledge. I don't mind sitting with the audience because I have a remote audio feed from my mixer and mikes that are anround and near the stage. I don't use a mike from my location so all I need are two seats really. I sit and drop the tripod down low. Hang it over the ledge and try not to get a shoulder cramp. I use a remote lanc controller mounted on the tripod handle and stick a small monitor right in front of my face duct taped to the ledge with a tether in case it accidently gets knocked down into the ramp area.

John