OT:Ultra Problem

Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 7:13 AM
Ran into two interesting problems last night while using Ultra. I am pretty sure both are Ultra problems but I hope some of you who use Ultra can point me in the right direction. I apologize for the length.

Problem 1
Interviewed a subject in front of a green screen. Used Ultra to chroma key them. Everything was fine...clip worked well. Inserted the keyed clip in Vegas with the project and decided the subject in the keyed clip needed to be flip horizontally 180 degrees. Returned to Ultra, used Scene and changed, saved the output. (Bear with me here...not sure how to describe what happened) When I went back to Vegas the clip showed the original "mask" (cut out of the person facing left with a grey background and part of the Ultra ? mark) and only the part of the subject facing right that fell inside that "mask". Use the clip in a different location on the timeline...same problem. To get it to work...I have to delete all instances of the clip on the timeline, delete all instances of the original clip from the hard drive.....and re-key in Ultra. Obviously I am missing something....

Probelm 2
If I use an Ultra clip in a project. Decide the audio needs noise reduction or EQing....open the clip in Sound Forge...apply fixes...then bring it back to Vegas...I lose the alpha channel. Again, to fix I have to delete the keyed clip, go back and process the audio of the original clip first, then re-key in Ultra. The problem here seems to be with saving an AVI in Sound Forge or the difference in how it is saved in Ultra and Sound Forge. Is there a way to perform the audio processes without losing the alpha channel or is it just standard procedure to key the clip last?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Comments

Bob Greaves wrote on 3/12/2005, 7:20 AM
You may need to force Vegas to refresh the media it is using.

I am not in front of my editing computer rIght now but I think you can right click on the media in the media pool and from that context menu select a forced refresh.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/12/2005, 8:05 AM
You should be editing a COPY of the audio in Sound Forge, not the actual audio from the avi file. This will save you time as well as eliminate this problem.
When you flip the image in Ultra and resave it, have you refreshed the Explorer in Vegas? This should work. Since you're likely leaving Vegas open, editing in Ultra, then reopening that same filename in Vegas, you likely need to refresh the explorer.
Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 11:30 AM
I'm not sure if I did or not....I know at some point I hit F5 thinking that the file was not refreshed. That makes sense....sense deleting everything and starting over corrects it. I'll experiment in a little while...(as some as I finsh the honey do list for the day!)

I should have been using the "copy" instead of "open" in Sound Forge. I know better....just wasn't thinking at 11:00 last night.

Thanks for your time and suggestions Spot. I knew I could count on you, Grazie, or, Farss....I've learned so much from all of your posts.
Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 4:38 PM
Tried severasl things to no avail....

Tried refreshing after updating the file in Ultra.......tried closing Vegas...re-opening, and inserting the clip in a new project....nothing makes a diiference. All show the original empty mask with only part of the subject. If I play the clip in Windows Media Player....it's looks fine.

Thanks again.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/12/2005, 5:57 PM
You're hitting the Refresh button in your Vegas Explorer?
Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 6:22 PM
Yes...hitting F5 after saving the new Ultra clip....I highlight a file in the file list in Vegas Explorer, hit F5. I see the list refresh. I even closed down Vegas, re-opened to a new project and still...same thing. I've got to be missing something simple.......

Thanks again for your help.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/12/2005, 6:51 PM
In the Vegas Explorer, hit the Refresh button rather than using the F5 key
Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 7:43 PM
No difference. It's the same either way.
Jameson_Prod wrote on 3/12/2005, 8:43 PM
After some research on the Ultra User Forum, I found the following:(close to what I am doing)

Post:
I discovered a problem with the way Ultra saves Alpha channels. It happened while experimenting with the 90 degree camera tilt and saving to alpha channel. The image saves the way you tilted it in the scene but the alpha channel is saved and disregards the settings in the orientation tab.

Response from Support:
What you are attempting to do is not supported in ULTRA at this time. The alpha information cannot be rotated or moved when saving out a 32-bit clip. The best way to do what you want is to key the clip and save it without rotating the clip back to normal orientation. When you bring in the clip into your next project, rotate it then. This should rotate the clip and alpha channel together.

http://www.seriousmagic.com/msgboard/messageview.cfm?catid=14&threadid=6068

Kinda silly to have the option, allow you to change.....but not save the results. Oh well......

Thanks for all your help Spot. I appreciate all your efforts.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/12/2005, 9:58 PM
Thanks for letting me know the issue. I use Ultra, but have not had to deal with this problem (yet) That's odd that the alpha doesn't move in Ultra, but it makes sense that you could bring it into Vegas as a 32bit file and rotate the whole thing there.