OT: Where do I put my money?

MyST wrote on 5/27/2004, 6:01 PM
OK, so here's my ideal set-up:

Athlon XP 2800+ (bought)
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (bought)
Pioneer 107 DVD+/-RW burner (bought)
Shuttle Xpress (bought)
Antec Sonata case (bought)

Looking at:
M-Audio Delta 410 soundcard @ $113 US. Pro level at consumer level price.
LX4 5.1 monitoring system @ $415 US
WD 80Gig SATA drive (system/apps/media)
WD 120Gig SATA drive (projects)
Sony Digital8 TVR-460 (recommended by many, many people, including all the stores that have them) Best bang-for-the-buck.

Is there anywhere I can cut back to reduce my expenses yet still maintain a quality set-up?
What would you change?
5.1 mixing/monitoring is a must.

Thanks

Mario

Comments

winrockpost wrote on 5/27/2004, 6:19 PM
looks to me as if you are set up lean and mean,, bang for the buck.
Cam is the only thing I would question,,, Cam on a budget, have you checked out the new panny 3 chip cams for not too much more than digital 8 ? Personally dont no much about them but the 3 chip caught my eye, may be all show no go but worth looking at.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/27/2004, 6:24 PM
You didn't mention a computer case. I ALWAYS skimp on the case. :) I bought a P4 case for $20 (after $10 rebate). Threw in a fan on the back right below the power supply and have had no heat problems (I have an XP 1800). :)

I justr made sure I had a case with LOTS of space on the inside.
MyST wrote on 5/27/2004, 6:32 PM
I forgot to mention...

I figured this is the best place to put my money for now. If (big IF) I do end up making some extra money editing for others, then I can look at dual LCD displays, video monitor, more RAM, etc).
I can't afford to get the "bells and whistles" if I don't have the basics. I figure you guys are the best people to tell me what the basics are.

Mario
MyST wrote on 5/27/2004, 6:36 PM
Actually Friar, I did. That's the Antec Sonata case I mentioned. OK, so I had a soft spot for it when I saw the specs on it. It's supposed to be quiet...we'll see. It comes with a 120mm fan on the back and has a place for another 120mm fan in the front. I'm debating buying the extra fan.

Mario
RexA wrote on 5/27/2004, 9:15 PM
>LX4 5.1 monitoring system @ $415 US
WD 80Gig SATA drive (system/apps/media)
WD 120Gig SATA drive (projects)

SATA is the Serial ATA, yes? I have almost the same PC here and I put one SATA drive in it. I also have 2 regular drives. The SATA was more expensive but they all work great. So that could save you a few dollars. Oh, you could move them to an external box later too (if you have a reason) much more easily than SATA.

I'm not sure exactly what the LX4 5.1 is, but at that price I'd think it can't be very good. My advice is hold off on that part until you can afford a better package. [Ready to be flamed by LX4 owners.]
RexA wrote on 5/27/2004, 9:21 PM
You didn't mention if you have an external TV monitor. (It needs to be connected through some kind of a firewire converter - lots of people pass it through a DV camcorder.)

If you don't have an external monitor, I'd put that near the top of your list. Even anything cheap that can take S-Video or composit input is good enough and important.
johnmeyer wrote on 5/27/2004, 9:22 PM
On the drives, BIG is important, but fancy drive electronics is not (unless you are planning to do HD).
craftech wrote on 5/27/2004, 9:38 PM
If your present setup works for editing, even if it is a little slow, and if you have some money to spend, put into camera and/or related equipment. Your original footage and how that looks should take first priority IMO.

John
kentwolf wrote on 5/27/2004, 9:44 PM
>>...If you don't have an external monitor, I'd put that near the top of your list...

That really can't be emphasized enough.

It's really a no fooling big deal.
MyST wrote on 5/28/2004, 3:06 AM
As a matter of fact I was playing around with a cheap option of external monitor last night.
I have TV out on the Radeon and I hooked it to 13" TV via an RCA cable. The supplied S-Vidoe to RCA adapter was mounted to the card. However, when trying to get anything to show on the TV, all I got was static. I'm jsut starting out at this, so bear with me. I sent ATI an e-mail to see if I did something wrong, or missed a step.
I've got the cabling going from S-Video on the PC to video IN on the TV.

Mario

EDIT: I just re-read your post RexA. So when I have my camcorder, I'd go through that?
riredale wrote on 5/28/2004, 9:16 AM
If the SATA drives are the same price as IDE drives, go for it; otherwise I'd go for capacity. Sata gains you little today, though they will eventually become the standard. But by then you'll be buying 1TB drives for $49.95!

You can get into surround-sound audio editing for far less money. I bought a Creative 5700 (I think that's the model number) a few months back for $100. The reviews on places like www.extremetech.com and www.tomshardware.com said that this system was remarkably flat and clean, and a bargain for the price. I have little doubt the more-expensive speakers will sound better; the question is HOW much better, and whether it would make a difference to your work at this point.

Ditto (maybe) for the sound card. I've tried four different cards over the past 6 months, and didn't find much difference between them on the output side (driving the speakers). Big differences on the input side, but I get the best results inputting my audio via a USB device, anyway (isolates the low-level audio circuitry from all that electrical interference inside a PC case). Right now I'm using a $13 sound card, and it works great.

Don't know much about the Sony TRV-460 D8 camcorder on your list, but saw it advertised this morning in the local Fry's ad. They're selling it for $400. The only thing that raised the red flag for me was the mention that it had "990x" digital zoom. Please! If they're building a camera that has such an outrageous digital zoom factor, then they obviously are targeting an illiterate consumer.

It might be that the camcorder is a fine unit--in fact, it probably is. I'm a big fan of Sony cameras. For one thing, their SteadyShot technology is probably the best in the industry. I just don't understand why the marketing folks would create and then tout such a useless "feature."

Reminds me of my own camera. I bought a Sony VX-2000 camcorder last year, and it's a wonderful machine, definitely several steps up from the typical consumer camcorder. Yet even that model sees the need to include a fader button on the side of the camera. Oh, right; it makes sense to do your fades in the camera, and not in post...(!)

Like the others have emphasized, a monitor is a must. Anything will work, as long as it can make a decent picture when fed network shows. Later you can get professional equipment, which will be more precise. But anything is far better than nothing--you really can't trust the Vegas preview window for some tasks.

Anyway, that's my take on the subject. I am by no means a pro, so I guess you should factor that in.
RalphM wrote on 5/28/2004, 10:10 AM
I'll second the thought that you may want to consider one of the lower priced miniDV cams rather than the D8.

However, I've seen video from a low end Sony D8, taken under good lighting conditions, that was really quite good, and I'm comparing it to my Sony VX2000s.

The 3 chippers do begin to shine when the lighting is not as good such as in a performance, wedding, etc. where you can't control the lighting.
John_Cline wrote on 5/28/2004, 12:39 PM
Panasonic has an inexpensive (around $1000 street price) three-chipper MiniDV (PV-DV953) that uses 3 1/4" chips. I played with one at Circuit City a few weeks ago and it seemed to produce rather nice images. They also have two other three-chip models, the PV-GS120 and the PV-GS200 at $700 and $1,000 respectively (retail.) These two models use 1/6" chips, which don't perform quite as well in low light, but all the low end camcorders, whether 3-chip or single chip, are going to 1/6" chips.

Here are some rather comprehensive, in-depth reviews of these three camcorders:

PV-DV953 review

PV-GS200 review

PV-GS120 review

John
RexA wrote on 5/28/2004, 7:46 PM
>EDIT: I just re-read your post RexA. So when I have my camcorder, I'd go through that?

Vegas only supports external monitor output via a firewire port (1394). Even if you got it working, I don't think you can really trust the TV output from a video card to be an accurate representation of the image. The image you see on your computer monitor will defiantely not be the same as what you see if you, say, burn a DVD and play it to a TV. The color maps differently than the RGB display. That is why you should have an external monitor to see what it really will look like.

So you need some kind of hardware that converts the DV output in firewire to an analog signal for the TV. I use a Canopus ADVC100 to drive my old, not so good monitor. (The ADVC100 can also be used in the other direction to capture analog video from, say, a VCR.) Some people use a camcorder to do that same conversion. Most but not all of them will do that. Even using the LCD on the camcorder is better than no external monitor, but you can feed an external monitor out of the VCR S-video or composite output connectors.

There have been lots of discussions about this on the forum. Try searching back for 'external monitor'.
RexA wrote on 5/28/2004, 7:50 PM
I learned in the VASST Acid class today that the LX4 system is from MAudio and is really very good for the price, so I retract my scepticism. I think surround should be down the list in priority, though, from some of the other stuff.
Caruso wrote on 5/29/2004, 1:33 AM
Riredale: I share your sentiments concering cams overloaded with useless features. I own an old one that includes a titling feature - and most, even today, include auto faders and brag on and on about digital effects capabilities - all devices which, in my opinion, tempt one to ruin otherwise good bits of shooting - or miss the action altogether.

All that stuff had some appeal ten or so years ago for those of us with no viable or affordable post editing options - and that's about how long it's been since I was even tempted to touch any of them.

I wish someone would make a simplified cam - one with great optics, good imaging innards, the ability to turn auto-everything off (especially audio limiting circuitry) and a couple of really prominent and smooth operating buttons to control exposure and, perhaps, auto-focus on demand.

Audio limiting circuitry I find especially annoying - here I own a cam that can lay down CD quality PCM, and no way to control the recording level - what are the mfrs thinking about? Puzzles me.

Regarding Digi8 format, it surprises me that so many would put it down as an inferior format or hold up DV as somehow superior to Digi8. It seems that, whever that topic comes up, there are always a few comments about how, for nearly the same or not much more, you could get DV. If, by moving to DV (or any other format) you are getting inherently better image quality, then, I say go for it. But, if optics and CCD capability are equal, then, I wouldn't hesitate to go with Digi8 format.

They are robust little cams, most with pass-through capability, and, I believe the one mentioned is backward comopatible with analog tapes, if the poster has any of those in his collection.

Caruso