OT: Which HD Cam for shooting TV special?

will-3 wrote on 9/24/2009, 6:36 PM
I've been off line for awhile and am catching up...

We want to buy a new cam (HD) for shooting a television special to air on one of the cable networks.
- Our budget is probably in the $3k to $5k range... plus or minus.
- We like Sony but will consider others
- Currently have been shooting with Sony PD-150 but moving to HD
- We want 3CCD & would like something that will shoot video accecptable to cable networks... HGTV, Food Network, Discovery Channel, etc.
- Don't think we need changable lens but good optical zoom.
- Ability to record to both tape and memory would be nice.
- Good chroma key ability would be nice.
- As a 2nd cam for certain field applications/shoots we are also looking for a quality still cam that will also shoot high quality HD.

Thanks for any suggestions and comments.

Comments

farss wrote on 9/24/2009, 8:48 PM
The cheapest camera that will meet those specs (Discovery) would be the EX1. I think you need to add the Convergent Design NanoFlash to get 4:2:2 as well.

Of course if you've got footage of something unique like Obama welcoming a delegation from Mars in Area 51 they'll accept Hi8 or VHS.

Bob.
musicvid10 wrote on 9/24/2009, 9:07 PM
"Of course if you've got footage of something unique like Obama welcoming a delegation from Mars in Area 51 they'll accept Hi8 or VHS."

Bob, that's the best one-liner I've heard from you in some time. Thanks for a good belly laugh!

I got that one on my cell phone. Think they'll take it?
ushere wrote on 9/24/2009, 10:30 PM
sorry to differ bob, but i reckon they'd accept THAT footage from a mobile.....
rmack350 wrote on 9/24/2009, 11:01 PM
Heck, if it's Fox they'd accept it if it was drawn on a napkin.
Jim H wrote on 9/24/2009, 11:52 PM
Heck, if it's Fox they'd accept it if it was drawn on a napkin.

...and if it were MSNBC they'll give you the napkin.
will-3 wrote on 9/25/2009, 4:36 AM
Bob,
Ditto on the great line :) & thanks for the help.
I'm guessing that is the Sony EX1 your suggesting.
Maybe you or someone here can save me some research time...

1 - Is there more than one model of the Sony EX1? Differences?
2 - Does it record on both tape and to a memory card?
3 - Is the memory card proprietary or just a regular flash memory card? Card Memory Size? Cost for extra's? Alternative Card mfg's?
4 - Additional accessories we should consider? (other than the one you mentioned)
5 - Is it JVC that makes an alternative to this that use some propriety recording format? What's the story on that?

Thanks for any help.
farss wrote on 9/25/2009, 5:19 AM
1 - Well there's the EX3. If your needs extend to using the camera in an outside broadcast or with a vision switcher then this is the camera to get. If you seriously believe you'd you like to put a better lens on the camera this camera to get. Keep in mind that good HD lenses cost as much as an EX3! If you don't see the need for any of that then the EX1 is exactly the same camera image wise.

2 - It records only to SxS cards or to the much cheaper MxM adaptors with SDHC cards. This camera does not record SD either. It opens up a world of image control (it is a Cinealta camera) that can be quite confusing. Forget pretty well anything automatic also. It does record at every frame rate and then some.
3 - See above.
4 - For the EX1 I'm very happy with the Hoodman Loupe. Focusing with this camera is critical. There's the obvious things like extra batteries, mic, etc. I've also replaced the mic holder which breaks easily with a cold shoe made by DM Accessories. This makes it very easy to remove the mic for travel. I'd add a good tripod. Not much point taking stunning images if they wobble :)
5 - JVC make a camera that will record to the same SxS cards or record the same XDCAM EX format to SDHC cards.

Please, please be aware that this is NOT the camera for everyone. For the money nothing can produce images of as high quality as the EX. It's also much easier to produce really bad images with this camera. Having owned one since they first came out I'm still learning and exploring. It's a very serious camera at a low price.

Bob.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/25/2009, 5:58 AM

"For the money nothing can produce images of as high quality as the EX. It's also much easier to produce really bad images with this camera."

Truer words have never been spoken on this topic!


will-3 wrote on 9/25/2009, 7:37 AM
Thanks again Bob.

1 - what do you mean by "outside broadcast or with a vision switcher"
- Outside broadcast = Shooting video outside or "live" broadcast?
- Vision switch = video switcher like a firewire video switchers or whatever... or what?

2 - Is this $34.95 MXM expresscard/34 for $45 what you are talking about? http://mxmexpress.com/
or should I look at other options for this?

3 - No auto focus or other auto features with the EX1? Or did you mean with the EX3?

Thanks you so much for your help on this.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 9/25/2009, 8:09 AM

Yes, the EX cameras have auto features, but professionals seldom use them.

I highly recommend you go to DVinfo's EX forum and spend some time looking around and reading. You'll learn a lot there!


farss wrote on 9/25/2009, 2:18 PM
1 - Pretty much what you said. The EX3 has timecode in which means it can genlock to an external reference. This means if there's multiple cameras shooting all those cameras shutters operating at the same speed and in sync. Even if you're recording iso and not going through a vision switcher this can be a help when you come edit as everything will stay in sync, both sound and vision.

This camera generally does not really support firewire. Only the low quality modes can output "HDV" over firewire. The HQ codecs are 35Mbps and it doesn't fit down firewire. These camera use HD SDI as their primary video and audio output. If you want an external monitor ideally you want one with HD-SDI input.

2 - Yes. Other option are genuine Sony SxS cards. There's also an external SSD HDD recorder coming out sometime.

3 - The camera certainly has all the normal auto features. It's not just that pros don't use them. On this camera they can be very slow or hunt. I still use auto iris at times, even if only to get a ballpark setting and then switch it off. The camera does have a lot of feedback to assist full manual operation. Lens info, dual zebras, histogram, color temperature etc can all be displayed in the viewfinder. Also you can setup the camera so you can directly control these, you don't have to stop recording to change something.

Jay is right on the money. There's a wealth of info on this camera over at DVInfo. Spend some time digging around. It also would be money very well spent to rent one for a few days. Apart from anything else you need some time to evaluate the ergonomics of a camera, moreso with the EX cameras.

Bob.
will-3 wrote on 9/25/2009, 3:19 PM
Thanks Guys. This is a great start. I'll follow your advice and check out the other forum. Thanks again for the great help!
richard-courtney wrote on 9/26/2009, 6:19 AM
In line with what has been mentioned by Bob and others....
The EX3 is the way to go with your price range. The EX1 just is
hard to hold without the shoulder pod.

Not that pros never use auto functions you get an image that fits the
mood of the shot by not using auto, more creativity.

In multicamera setups you might need a distribution amp/splitter such as
Gefen for each camera to add monitors and a switcher connection.

Just some thoughts.
farss wrote on 9/26/2009, 7:26 AM
[i]" The EX1 just is hard to hold without the shoulder pod."[i]

Since I've added the Hoodman Loupe to my EX1 hand held isn't too bad with a naked EX1. I much prefer the control layout on the EX1 to the EX3. Why is the zebra button on the back of the LCD, yish.

Neither camer holds a candle to a 'broadcast' shoulder mount camera if you can't use a tripod. Last shoot I was mixing it with a couple of network guys with Digibeta cameras. Those beasts are just so much easier to swing. Neither of the EXs has enough meat to hold a light and wireless receivers.

Bob.