Defining art is always a tough question. To make a broad definition, I'd say that Art typically has an intellectual or emotional dimension in addition to its spacial and temporal dimensions. This might be a bit wordy but there ya have it.

Given that definition, I have two ways of gauging art in a film-headaches and stomach-aches. If I leave a theater with my head is really hurting it's usually because I was mentally engaged. With the stomache-ache it's emotional engagement.

Peter Greenaway is a favorite of mine and his films usually leave me with a headache. (Prospero's Books also left me with a burning jealousy).

For a good program on the nature of art try this link: Forum with Michael Krazny

Rob Mack

Kill Bill was cool with how some of the music interacted with the movie and the animation.

Check out City of God and see the perfect merge of art and action.
It rocked my world and view of making movies.

Some people like the Stan Brakhage and Mathew Barney film art stuff but it didn't really do it for me. Maya Deren In the Mirror was just released on DVD, I'm curious about it.
Get all three Res Fest DVD's (Awesome!)
check it out, there is a whole world of odd, cool stuff out there.
Since you started with Kill Bill then I would first check out City of God.

Rob! Thank you from London UK! . . .

Well, I was riverted for the whole hour .. excellent link -GREAT stuff . ..

Here are a few notes I've made from the hour long piece:

1 - Excites wonder and writing [ about art ] .. is like Dancing about architecture [ David Byrne ] .. " . . but there some example of architecture which makes me want to dance! " . . I liked this one!

2 - . . but there are some .. legitimate or deligitomizing transfer of forms from the commonplace world . .. .

3 - . . See art for what it is . . . [ not about ] Restrict options reduces sensibilities ..

4 - Multi sensory and multi referential .. . [ and ] not necessarily about seeing

5 - Puts ideas in a different relationship .. 'cos it is grounded in the senses . . .

6 - Art is not necessarily revolutionary . . what pushes us what moves us . . . can art occur accidentally . . . . intrigued patterns . . is there a need for intentionality? . .

7 - The observer is the artist . . framing some aspect of experience . . . aesthetic experience notice framing and presenting them .. .

8 - Noticing [ stuff! ] . . . Art is the sensuous presentation of an idea [ from ] Hegel

9 - Noticing is key . . . presenting can be done well or badly . . .

Sorry not very fast on the typing . . .

Rob, once again, I got a heap of stuff from this type of discussion. Never fails to surprise me that when I hear this "What is Art" type of discussion I get even more meaning and understanding .. . ironic that!

Grazie

If you liked Kill BIll you should go back to the orginals - so to speak. Look at John Woo films - the Asian ones, not the US ones (Although they too have their moments). Take a look at some Jet Li films - not the US ones but the Aisan ones. For sure look at the "Once upon a time in China" films. And you can't really forget about Jackie Chan.

If you want "Art" watch "Woman in the Dunes".

"Picnic at Hanging Rock", "The Last Wave" and "City Obscured by Clouds" come into my mind as films that are very artistic. "Days Of Heaven" is a masterpeice in my eyes. I think "The Dark Backwards" is as well. "Slaughterhouse 5" is pretty mind blowing at times in its delivery.

And those who read these threadrs now that I have to say "The Stuntman" is pure film making. "Eraserhead" is pure genus for sound desgin. Almost any film by Preston Sturges...the guy knew how to direct for "moving pictures" and in my eyes is one of the most forgotten about directors in the relam of "learning". Everyone likes to look at Hitchcock films, or films like "On the Waterfront" and "Citizen Kane" and too few look at films like "The Miracle Of Morgan's Creek" or "Sullivan's Travels" - the later being one of the most heartfelt films about film making I have ever seen.

Oddly enough, I had written a reply to this post, yesterday that referenced John Woo's The Killer and Hard Boilded and Days of Heaven, but my browser crashed before I could post it. So I second their recommenedation. Especially the Woo movies if you are an action-film fan.

Myst, I think what you are referring are referring too is the visual style of a movie. Kurosawa say it very easy to do something flashy to get the audience's attention,but developing a true visual style is incredibly hard to do.

The Special Edition of Goodfellas just came out on DVD and I love the look and rhthym of that movie. When Henry Hill gets seduce into the mob, the feel is lush and romantic and glamorous, then the movie gets colder, finally it ends up frantic and paranoid as Henry's life spirals out of control in a fit of cocaine and betrayal.

Other movies that pop into my head are The Conformist by Bertolucci, Pather Panchali by Sayajit Ray (it's the first film of the Apu Trilogy. Scorsese says watching the Apu Trilogy in one sitting was one of the great experiences of his life.), John Ford's The Searchers, Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, Chungking Express by Wong Kar Wai, Chinatown directed by Roman Polanski and Wings of Desire by Wim Wenders.

I love Preston Sturges as well. Any film of his 1940 to 1944 is worth checking out. It was one of the most dazzling artistic bursts in Hollwood history. After that he broke with Paramount and tried to start his own film studo with Howard Hughes, (while running a restaurant at the same time) and things fell apart. Billy Wilder, Howard Hawks and early Francis Ford Coppola movies are gems too.