Interesting. Toshiba dis not cancel CES as was suggested. The show went on. It was much quieter then originally planned (WB was supposed to speak) and they did not take questions.

They are introducing what APPEARS to be a wireless player for streaming.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/live-from-the-toshiba-ces-press-conference/

"Write your own joke here."

There is no joke. Gates HAS done a lot for computing. Just exactly where do you think computing would be without Bill Gates and Microsoft?

He also happens to be the richest man in the world. The guy could buy a small Country and party for the rest of his days. Not quite what happened though..... Warren Buffet's bank account (second richest man in the world) has teamed up with Bill's in support of the Bill And Linda Gates Foundation which takes care of the poor. What a greedy and thoughtless SOB... eh! ;)

Actually, IBM created the PC image that America bought, Gates got a free ride. In fact, there were superior OSs to Gates magic sell and the fact is, Gates was careful to kiss IBM's butt in the beginning, which a couple of other companies failed to appreciated big business protocol. Apple push in the 80's for the school class help promote home pcs can be educational. Gates has out right "borrowed" other individuals or companies products during the 80s/90s and cut a clever fed deal in the early Clinton years standardizing all fed agencies in document generation using MS products solely. The fed contracts created a mega impact on MS stock value and damaged all other document WP companies like Corel, Lotus, Zerox,etc. Computing would have advanced with out Gates and will advance faster without him.

Bill got the same "free ride" that the google guys are getting right now... or Blu Ray for that matter ;)

However I fail to see the Sony Foundation or the Google Foundation standing beside Gates, Linda and Buffet.

Gates had an idea and he ran with it as fast as he could.... and so would you.

"However I fail to see the Sony Foundation or the Google Foundation standing beside Gates, Linda and Buffet."

Amen!!!!!

apit34356, I'm not going to go into why I know differently, but you have an amazingly skewed view of what really happened.

John, I am with you. The true facts are much different then that telling of history. I know, i was selling computers just before the IBM PC hit store shelves. I was working with that other operating system known as CP/M (Control Program/Machine). Back then there was no "PC" but rather microcomputers that we were selling.

The story of how PC-DOS came to be IBM's operating system is said to be a story of fishing and ignoring phone calls by Gary Kildall of Digital Research, so that Gates an Allen got the deal by default.

I also worked with a Unix version call Cromix on the Cromenco System 3 that has been said to be the first commercial microcomputer long before the IBM PC. Cromemco started selling computers and boards around the same time as Apple in 1976.

So, John, I agree with your comment. You are right on.

John Cline, no problem. Sometime when I'll at IBM NY or Houston or Silicon Valley, maybe we can meet and you and I will take the grand tour thru some the Boardrooms and research centers, have a few drinks with the old timers.

"story of fishing " actually it was sailing and Gary thought his superior CP/M os was a "done deal", just a matter of positioning for fees------but you first must meet the team leaders. I understand the IBM team leader response because this was an ophan project, but CP/M was a better choice. IBM management never considered the PC as a computing product, but understood the important of brand names------ by the late 60's/70's colleges were seeing GE, Zerox, CDCs, Burroughs, TI computers at the campus computer centers, influencing future IT managers. The IBM PC was a marketing shortcut for BIG Iron futures. Of course, some people think networks, network computing was a MS product but this is so wrong.

Oh, Cromemco and the S-100 bus computers...

Thanks to the standardized bus connector, you could buy a huge 2KB card from any vendor!

Its success was virtually guaranteed... ahem.

But CP/M stood for Control Program for Microprocessors, didn't it?

And UNIX stood for....

...Truth, Justice, and the American Way!

:O)

I agree that networks and network computing was not, and still isn't an MS product.

I had 6 terminals, two printers, and two 2400 baud modems modems running off a single Cromemco System III with a 2 mbps Z-80 chip and 256K memory and an 80mb hard drive, plus four 8-inch floppy drives. While it certainly wasn't a true network in today's terms, we did run two remote terminals via dialup. I still marvel at how much we accomlisted in the maximum 64k memory partitions that we had to run the OS and the application code within.

Was CP/M better? I thought so. I didn't like the PC-DOS and MS-DOS when I started using it. But then I hated windows with a passion when the first versions appeared. The old DOS and its applications were so very much faster.

But, times changes, progress moves forward, and today I have to ask, whatever happened to my favorite CP/M and DR-DOS that I preferred and used for years. I know, it still exists. Like so many "better things", like betamax (home use), they are a distant memory. So in the end, were they better? One could argue that the products that succeed are better in that they succeeded where the other products failed. It is all relative. Just IMHO.

Your opinion, as you know, is very valid, respected and noted.

The one funny thing in IBM's PC project was years later watching networked PC's replacing the big iron in a couple of very large local businesses. They did not know what they wrought.

I believe that CP/M was the first commercial micro OS that could truly Multi-task for x86 for the consumer market.

The S100 bus was an interesting approach for a backplane for micro computing at the hobbyist level.

"UNIX", coursedesign, do you mean" Underdeveloped Nothingfunctional Interface Xbox " ATT labs gift to the GE world.

Coursedesign, to you remember Prime computers. OS written in Fortran iv-----------

then we have IBM series 1 minicomputer around the IBM PC.

DSC, sometimes I treat CM/p and DR-DOS as same when comparing them against MS-DOS. But they are not; I think CM/P was more popular with the engineering crowd but then that was over 30 years ago. But it nice too find individuals that worked or was hobbyist during that developing time. Hobbyist market grew fast and die almost as fast once packaged systems became available it seemed.

While we're on the nostalgia trail, and someone here just had to mention it, spare a thought for OS/2 - remember???? And the MS vs IBM debacle!
Tom

I still have Dr Dos.. and use it. I also still have an old file mangement program called WONDER that I still use from time to time when troubleshooting.

Of course non of this stuff works on NTFS, but I did manage to get some of it working on FAT32 (with the help of win98 system files)

In fact I have saved all of that stuff... Dos5, 5.1, 6...6.22, win3.1.... etc. I have no idea why I saved it... just can't bare to throw it out I guess.

I can still remember signing on to the local bulliten boards via dial up for the daily gab and to download some of the free programs. Of course this was before the internet as we know it today, and a BIG program was considered 800Kb. Boy.... have things changed!!

I had an original Commodore 64.

We had it tough. Used to dream about owning a Commodore 64
My Sinclair ZX80 used to stuggle with HD Cam editing, but it could make an inverted "V" take off and land like a spaceship.

I thought I had died and gone to heaven when I got my Commodore 64. Then I got the tape drive and thought it was the cat's meow. When I could finally afford the floppy drive I was worried it was going explode every time I used it. Anyone remember how violently that thing knocked when it was running?

well, the Z80 chip was a kick**s cpu and help the X86 based product line grow! A number of smart CRTs were based on the Z80, countless industrial control subsystems and telephone PBXs,etc,,,,,,,,,, Tho, the Z80 was not maded by Intel, it help the Intel X86 line survive the M6800 line intro.

Commodore 64 was pretty successful consumer product, I was surprised that a Commodore X64 or something similar didn't happen ------ a lot of people thought the 64 was the Cat's meow( or something like that).

The Z80 was designed by Zilog, a company that I think was founded by a couple of fellows, one who had left Intel. The Intel 8080 was the processor that the Z80 emulated and improved on as I remember. I also have the recollecvtion that Zilog let others manufacture the Z80 chip.

One of my early Z80 CP/M machines was the Osborne portable. I think I still have it. I know I still have the Cromemco System 3 that was my baby for so many years. The Osborne was cute, very, very popular. But It had a 5 inch screen that was kind of a joke to use. I can remember toting it around and using is as a terminal for my phone systems we were installing back then. Didn't get toted much. It was heavy, hard to see. We wound up using a portable thermal printing keyboard from TI as our terminal. I still have that and rolls of paper.

I need help! :>

Can you say Pack Rat?

I have four RCA TK60's, too. Three on studio pedestals. My own little museum.

David
www.EventVideoTeam.com

"Osborne portable" about 40 or was it 90 pounds if my arm remembers correctly. I had one for about 3 months, more of a toy that I gave to my ex-brother-in-law to help him in the mobile business------transmission towers. The Osborne portable was a serious product but I think most customers bought them as big boy toys, which is pretty cool! Radio Shack actually helped the market in the mid 70's by just offering a z80 product in the local community national wide. Many individuals who hate RS computer products because it was RS failed too realized that RS marketing help the venture capital market view about micro systems, this helped companies raise capital , helped in getting bank loans and local investors.