I mainly use the mic on camera or use it on a short boom with the RODE brand 10' extension cable if I need to get the mic off camera - there wouldn't be any difference then in sound quality as compared to using an XLR connected mic?

Having said that - sticking with the mini jack connection - are there any other mics that are better than the RODE VideoMic with the mini jack connector?

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt

Doing a little Googling, I discovered Spots review of the Rode VideoMic - thanks to Spot for answering some questions I had in his review of the mic.

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt

Although the balanced XLR inputs on a camera (or anywhere else for that matter) are indeed mono, there's invariably two of them so the camera can record stereo, one channel goes to each of the XLR inputs.
The minipin inputs don't provide phantom power which you oftenly need for the more expensive mics. Beachtek and others do make adaptors that convert the two channels on the minipin to two balanced XLR inputs and depending on the model can also provide the needed phantom power.

All in all you might need to spend a lot more money to do much better than the Videomic although you could think about getting the stereo version. Ideally I'd take that off the camera and put it on a mic stand unless the camera is locked down. Having the stereo 'image' pan with the camera is not a good thing.

The Videomic isn't very directional though, so for something on a boom and for not a lot of money Rode also make a reasonable shortgun mic and in a version that doesn't need phantom power so that could be worth consider as well. Mics are as vast a field as cameras, if not more so. Perhaps if we knew more about what you're trying to record would give us some more clues as to what would suit your needs best. Of course you'll get a zillion different opinions though, just like when you ask 'which is the best camera for me?' :)

One thing though, before you buy anymore kit, buy a copy of a Audio Postproduction for Digital Video by Jay Rose (ISBN 1-57820-116-0), you'll be amazed what you'll learn about audio. Not a whole lot on recording in there but just the early chapter on sound will give you a good grounding in recording. Know how what you're trying to record behaves is a good starting point.

Bob.

Bob,

The majority of the work I shoot is more of a run & gun variety ( I mainly shoot underwater but do need to shoot on dry land at times - mainly for head and shoulder type interviews). I rarely get to really tweak the audio as I work in a very lean fashion. I do understand the idea of using something like the Beachtek adapter and all to record stereo, but most of the audio I work with is interviews up close or a little further back and use the mic on a short boom with the Rode 10' extension cable.

I look at Mics and shake my head at the amount of money that can be spent...

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt

"I look at Mics and shake my head at the amount of money that can
be spent..."

Ive spent more money on audio and mics than most other wedding companies spend on their entire studios... thats no joke.. BUT my investment has paid off... and thats the difference

I was going to suggest adding an interviewers mic to your collection, I picked up an Audio Technica one cheaply down here. These kinds of mics have a longer body which is handy, Senny also do one.

However for best results you really want a camera with XLR inputs and I'm reluctant to recommend adding an XLR adaptor like the Beachteks to a camera in your shooting scenarios. It's quite a bit of bulk and it's more connections to go wrong. Really, if what you've got is working for you why fix it if it isn't broke?

Bob.

why fix it if it isn't broke?

I felt the same way, but felt like I might have been missing something - I've read a fair amount about how audio can be considered more important than the actual footage being shot and I was wondering if I had been using the wrong tool for the job.

I haven't had a call yet to run longer lengths of cable from subject to camera hence my question. I do shoot some commercial work, albeit nothing as complicated as what I've seen from other shooters, and the information out there seemed biased without really giving me some solid reasons why XLR is better than mini jack mics.

The main reason for this is I have found one of the XLR blocks from a PD100 that will work with my TRV950's and would give me XLR capabilities, but before I made the decision to purchase, I wanted to get some input about this.

One thing I have noticed is that there are more options available mic wise with XLR than there is with mini jack

I'm not too keen on the Beachtek since it does add more bulk to the camera compared to the XLR block on the camera

If anything, I'm even more confused about this issue now - although I really do like the Rode VideoMic and what I"ve done with it so far - but since I have nothing to compare it against, maybe I'm missing out without actually having something to compare it to.

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt

For about $11 worth of parts available from Radio Shack or any electronics place, i built myself a 3 foot Y cable with a stereo 1/8" plug on one end and two female XLR connectors on the other. I started with the stock cable that has 1/8 stereo on one end and a pair of phono plugs on the other. Cut off the phono plugs, solder the signal wire to pin 2 of the XLR and the shield to pins 1 and 3. This lets me connect a pair of XLR mics to my camcorder. It also keeps the heavy, bulky XLR connectors away from the tiny lightweight camera. I'm sure there are a few stores that sell this item already made, but they probably charge way more than $11.

This cable doesn't provide phantom power, obviously. But in my case all my mics are either dynamic or include their own battery. For electrets that aren't self-powered there are inexpensive little boxes you can plug inline that contain a battery.

However, as per my original response, adding XLR capability in any way to a camera that only has a 1/8" jack still leaves you using the weak, unreliable, and easily damaged 1/8" jack. That's why i like the 3 foot cable i've got as it allows some buffer room between the camera body and the heavy connectors. I'll often tape a loop the cable to the tripod head so that there's some strain relief before the camera body.

And of course, the 1/8" connection to the camera is still unbalanced even when connecting balanced mics through an adapter.

> If anything, I'm even more confused about this issue now

Why are you more confused now? You got some pretty good answers in this thread. It all boils down to what might negatively affect your sound recording? A loose cable or pulled out cable, hum / interference, or a poor quality mic will definitely affect your recording. Let me try and summarize for you what's been discussed in this thread based on these attributes and see if it clarifies things.

XLR: Large sturdy connection with locking mechanism, Balance line (no hum) over long distances, Phantom power for high quality condenser mics, large selection of professional mics.

Miniplug: Small flimsy connection that pulls out/breaks easily with every-day use, Unbalanced line for short distances (will pick up hum from lights and RF devices), No Phantom power, limited inexpensive mic choices.

The only exception to the last comment (limited inexpensive mic choices) is the Rode VideoMic. This is the problem Rode set out to solve and, IMHO, they did an excellent job of it. The Rode VideoMic uses a built-in 9 volt batter for phantom power, uses quality components, and keeps the cord short to reduce the possibility of hum. So they have tried to mimic the best attributes of using XLR while keeping with a mini-plug adapter. I own one and it sounds great.

But in general, XLR is a more robust connection and gives you a wider range of professional mics to choose from. Miniplug is a consumer adapter that is good for short runs but you wouldn't want to use it on a boom at any distance and your mic selection is very limited.

I bought a Beacktek that I used before Rode came out with their VideoMic. I hardly ever use it anymore. I also have several Audio-Technica mics with XLR's that I use on my Sony Z1U and A1U. The Audio-Technica mics have better quality than the Rode but they also cost a lot more so you would expect that.

Bottom line: for an on-camera mic, you can't go wrong with the Rode VideoMic if your camera has a mini-plug. It will definitely sounds better than any in-camera mic.

~jr

So given the additional capabilities of XLR, does anyone have insights into what the XLR block provides for cameras like the PDX10/A1U with regards to audio quality? Or is this about having the ability to have XLR integrated into the camera and then your mic options greatly increase?

Thanks to all for their insights on this topic.

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt

I'd hazard a guess that it's purely giving you the balanced XLR inputs, phantom power and the ability to switch the inputs to line level in case you need to take a feed from a console / mixer.

In the grand scheme of things the audio sections of none of the cameras are stellar and as an old schooled audio guy I have some reservations about just how 'balanced' those inputs really are. They're certainly better than the unbalanced minipin inputs though, no question about that.

I really must add my voice to what other have said about the serious lack of security with those minipin connections. We had one client loose an entire wedding reception's audio thanks to a bumped plug. Remember when that plug is in, ALL your audio is going through it. With XLRs you can have the on camera mic in one input and the boom / hand held / wireless mic in the other. In other words you've got two independant audio paths. If one goes on the blink you've got a backup.

And the most important thing. Microphone placement, a $3,000 shotgun on the end of stick is a liability if the boom operator doesn't know what he's doing. As you spend more on hypercardiod mics the side rejection gets better, so if it isn't pointed at the sound source you can imagine what happens. Holding a boom mic for an extended period is an arduous task. Buy a good boom pole, I'm partial to the ones from Loon, they're ultra light weight. If you don't have a good operator / can't afford one, get a half decent handheld mic, for interviews much more practical and cheaper and quicker to setup.

Bob.

I agree a camera with built-in XLR is best option.

I don't have regrets buying a Beachtek adapter for our family's palm
size recorder. The difference in quality of sound from built-in mic is like night and
day. Not as good pro camera but I don't turn red faced.

Also recommend the boom operator have a http://www.studio1productions.com/am300.htmheadphone monitor[/link] or a http://www.equipmentemporium.com/cablesadapters.htmXLR cable with headphone return[/link].

The main advantages I've found since using XLR with my V1U is the ability to plug in several mics into the camera without having to go through the HUGE hassle of syncing audio. I usually run a Videomic through an XLR adapter into one channel and a wired lav into the other. With several of my initial bigger projects, I had major audio misshaps, so I always try to get more than one audio backup going during an interview, as most of the interviews I do are spontaneous. I bought the Videomics because of their flexibility; I can run them into my Hi-MD recorder, into my Canon HV20, or into the V1U, or basically any input.

I've used only stereo miniplug on my projects so far, primarily because that's how the connection was initially at the camera and it's much easier to carry shielded miniplug cables in a portable kit than XLR cables.

I've run up to 80' using shielded miniplug extensions (RadioShack). Note the word SHIELDED. Unshielded extension cables are common and would be worthless for low level signals from mics. Look specifically for shielded RadioShack 20' cables with miniplug male on one end and stereo 1/4" female phono on the other end. A $5 female stereo miniplug to male stereo phono adapter and you're set.

I also use an excellent stereo microphone called the AT-822 from AudioTechnica. I offers either an XLR or stereo miniplug output and is self-powered. Very clean response curve, though I don't know how it would compare to the Rode.

In my own experience, miniplug is fine, just much more delicate than XLR.

Riredale - are you talking about this kind of cable from Radio Shack???

Specs read it is shielded and the price is very reasonable.

Cliff Etzel - Immersive Video Journalist
bluprojekt