Out of memory in Vegas 9.0a with 1080p?

entilza72 wrote on 8/18/2009, 7:59 PM
Hi gang,

Just wondering if many others are hitting brick walls with 9.0a reporting it has run out of memory with 1080p projects whilst rendering to any file format, even though there's a ton of memory left? On a 32 bit OS? Or a 64 bit?

I have XP Pro 32 bit, 4Gb ram (3.25Gb addressable), and 11Gb of swap space. My project is 1080p and uses 1080p and 720i (pal) source material, plus 21 megapixel JPGs. It's reasonably complex with composits, many tracks and surround. It rendered fine whilst the project was under 15 mins. At 17 mins, it will no longer render without vegas running out of memory. Removing unused media, selectively rendering 50% or 33% of the project, even physically deleting half the content and rendering, now all results in a vegas out of memory error.

Oh for the days when the project just worked at 15 mins!!

Tracking memory usage, Vegas itself never got to 1Gb of memory usage. The entire system (OS included) never used more than 2Gb of physical ram (1.25Gb free) and swap peaked at 2Gb, leaving 9 Gb of swap free for a total of 10.25 Gb physical & swap free.

Hardly out of memory!

Vegas is hitting some kind of compiler or OS imposed ceiling.

Who else out there is finding this? Is it the same for the 64 bit guys?

A friend suggested Vegas may be running out of threads. A quick google showed some C compilers assume 1Mb per thread and only 2Gb can be given over to threads regardless how many there are.

I found this thread mostly references Vegas 8, but has the same symptoms of running out of memory.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=647907&Replies=88

When I did what was suggested, my render went almost to the end (over 95%) before bombing with an out of memory error. But it still fails, even if only rendering 33% of the project.

Who else out there is struggling with HD renders for large projects?

Cheers,
Jason (Entilza72)

Comments

bsuratt wrote on 8/18/2009, 8:58 PM
<< 21 megapixel JPGs >>

Reduce the size of these!
PerroneFord wrote on 8/18/2009, 9:14 PM
Your programs (with 32bit OS) can only use 2GB of RAM. This is why you are getting out of memory errors.

And no, I don't get these errors on 64bit. I have yet to see an out of memory condition and don't think I ever will.
entilza72 wrote on 8/18/2009, 9:18 PM
Well, that's the kicker.

You are most likely correct. But ...

The project zooms into the images. I can't reduce the size and zoom into the image, and deliver a crisp 1080p project.

The product blurb for Vegas Pro 9 states it supports "gigapixel images", so by the blurb they put on the box alone, it shouldn't be a problem. That'd be like a car manufacturer proclaiming their car now has a horn, but if you toot the horn, the car stops.

I'm not saying the images, and maybe the number of 1080p files, aren't generating the problem. They most likely are.

But I am saying - "what gives!?". Especially when there's so much free ram and swap left. This just shouldn't be an issue because each element should be read off disk as its needed for rendering or display.

Cheers,
Jason
entilza72 wrote on 8/18/2009, 9:23 PM
> Your programs (with 32bit OS) can only use 2GB of RAM. This is why you are getting out of memory errors.

Ah! Bingo. This is exactly what I was kind of hoping to read.

The link I provided was a tip to change the exe's and dll's to use more than 2Gb, but frankly it appears to be a little unreliable, and if there are other DLLs that need it but didn't get changed ... well, it won't work.

Thanks guys - I'll get a loan 64 bit system and report back the results.

Cheers,
Jason
PerroneFord wrote on 8/18/2009, 9:32 PM
"The product blurb for Vegas Pro 9 states it supports "gigapixel images", so by the blurb they put on the box alone, it shouldn't be a problem. That'd be like a car manufacturer proclaiming their car now has a horn, but if you toot the horn, the car stops."

"But I am saying - "what gives!?"."

So I have been renderinng some RED 4k files on the timeline to 2K Jpeg2000 .MOV files as I cruise the internet, and as I type these messages. I have iTunes open, Firefox with 18 tabs open and Limewire running in the background. No problems at all.

I am on my laptop.

BUT, you can bet that I am NOT running a minimum spec machine.

Yes, the box says it supports gigapixel size images. And it does. The box does not say it will support them with a minimum spec machine, and it won't. As you've found out.
Lou van Wijhe wrote on 8/19/2009, 12:46 AM
Jason,

On my system (4GB RAM, Vista 32) I usually have no memory problems. The first time I ran into it was with a short but very complex project like yours.

Of course, Vista 64 and lots of RAM would help. But I found 2 ways to make the troublesome project render, which may be a temporary solution for you too:

1. Nest your project in an empty project and render that. It runs very slowly but it runs.

2. I have a dual core machine. Switching one core off also made the project render without memory problems.

I don't know why it works but what-me-worry?

Lou
busterkeaton wrote on 8/19/2009, 1:05 AM
The project zooms into the images. I can't reduce the size and zoom into the image, and deliver a crisp 1080p project.

Actually I bet you can. Unless you are doing extreme zooms, you should be able to resize your images and still get crispness. 1080 is 1920 x 1080, unless you are zooming more than 50%, you don't need your images to be bigger than double 1080p or 3840 x 2160.

Also in lieu of getting a 64 bit machine, you can render out your zooms individually and your final project should render fine.
entilza72 wrote on 8/19/2009, 4:45 PM
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the help.

I'm pretty resigned to the fact that the solution will be a 64 bit machine. I'm very happy to upgrade, I just wanted to make sure the same kind of problems didn't exist in 64-bit land. Frankly, I'll enjoy the speed :-)

I'll give the single core trick a try, just out of curiosity. Thanks for the tips on nesting and individual zoom renders too.

The project heavily zooms into images and makes full use of the 21MP images. We're starting on single leaves on the ground and zooming out to show the tree it came from, for example.

I suspect as people embrace HD projects, this kind of "issue" will become more common for those on 32 bit systems. Obviously I'm not the first, and I certainly won't be the last! :-/

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Jason
busterkeaton wrote on 8/19/2009, 5:34 PM
So you are doing extreme zooms, even with those constraints, you can probably find a workaround to get this published in the 32-bit Vegas.

If you are doing this sort of work regularly, it is probably worth the move to 64 bit, but if not, or if you are under any time constraints, you could:
A. Break the project into smaller manageable sizes, such as 5 min or 10 mins. Then stitch the rendered files together into one continuous file.

B. If that doesn't work, you can render each mega zoom to a new track. This should then allow you to delete the original image, which would make it easier to do the final render.
videoLAB wrote on 8/20/2009, 10:43 AM
We are actually having the same problem on a 64 bit system trying to render a 3 minute 1080 24p project... says out of memory at different points during the rendering process each time, ie there is not a peak area of effects where it crashes... we are using 7 tracks with alot of velocity effects and colour correction.... tried pre rendering but nothing works....
PerroneFord wrote on 8/20/2009, 10:57 AM
What format is the source video in? What format are you rendering to? How much RAM in the machine?
videoLAB wrote on 8/20/2009, 11:09 AM
source video MXF and XDCAM; Rendering as Mpeg 2 for Blu Ray; 8GB Ram
PerroneFord wrote on 8/20/2009, 12:50 PM
Something is WAY out of whack there! Anything obvious in the Task Manager window? Can you close Vegas and see how much physical RAM is free? Then load Vegas and your project and see how much it changes?
videoLAB wrote on 8/20/2009, 1:08 PM
Hi
the out of memory message is probly out of date, ran task manager while rendering - in processor window didn't use more than 2.7 gigs of ram
since then created a nested version in new Vegas project then attempted to render as... which almost worked; rendered 90% of the timeline then crashed Vegas
no memory message just crashed
mikelinton wrote on 8/20/2009, 1:40 PM
Same situation here in 64bit... we have a very complex project entirely 1080 24p MXF XDCAM EX source, and it's been a real chore to render. Nesting only made it worse, so we ended up rendering the video component first, then adding text and other layers after that ...

It was to the point where Vegas wouldn't even load the project without crashing, turning events in the timeline red, or just getting so slow it couldn't run anymore (along with the many other exciting new crashes in Vegas 9).

And this is on a Vista 64 i7 machine with 6GB RAM, running 9 64bit.... unless you're doing straight cuts, 32bit Vegas just doesn't play well with a big HD edit.

Also try cleaning project media out you don't need, Vegas chews up a lot of RAM just keeping stuff in the Project Media it seems.

Mike.
farss wrote on 8/20/2009, 2:06 PM
Project complexity seems to have more to do with the problem than anything else. Precomposing some of the layers might help.
The type of error sounds more like Vegas has tried to access memory that's not allocated to it. If it gets worse after each crash it could be that Vegas is leaving processes behind that are holding onto memory. The problems seem significantly worse in 32bit float projects than 8bit projects.

Bob.
CorTed wrote on 8/20/2009, 4:21 PM
I never had any rendering or memory problem until Sony released Vegas 8.0 and these problems have continued through 9.0a.
Ever since 8.0 I have had nothing but trouble with the program crashing, or running out of memory. Mainly when the projects is complex i.e. many tracks, lots of FX on the timeline etc.
My only workaround has been to build the final project by rendering short pieces as to not fill up usable memory.
I do not think that this will be fixed with 9.0b.

Ted
entilza72 wrote on 8/20/2009, 4:31 PM
So some of the common themes here are:

1. HD projects
2. Complex projects (lots of layers, etc)
3. Velocity moves

Well, at least my project ticks all those boxes - does yours? My project is 8 bit, too.

It also seems it occurs on 32 and 64 bit installs.

I often have rebooted after an Out of Mem error just in case something was hanging on, to no avail. But, I am running 32 Bit at the moment on XP 32, so I expect not a lot of improvement until I'm 64 bit.

Jason