Sadly im with Bob.

In fact, one thing ive lawyas wanted in vegas was to choose Pal or NTSC during instal, this will inherantly leave the "fine" tweaking to a minimum as we conitnue to go through almost every aspect of the "defaults' and change them to PAL to suit our needs.

I can tell you now, that over 90% of people i train on vegas are using NTSC defaults, simply becuase they dont know that the app not only rquires some tweaking (like any app) but there is no indication save for preview frame rate as to what the aspect or the framerate might be. (save for project properties)
Most people dont start a new project by going to "file, new" they simply open up a blank prject an begin dropping shit in without even thinking about the settings.

For many, this issue is paramount as they DONT KNOW WTF theyre actually doing, in turn, its these same people who complain about choppy preview, bad looking renders and wierd aspect ratios..

As for Beta testers, I have been trying.. for the last 4 years at least... to become one, considering my business relationship with the distributors here in Aus as well as my DD TSA licensing and training history for the application itself.

In addition, here in AUs, we still dont have the option to for certified editors certificate as apparently the crew that were lookin into offering this werent even up to scratch to do it.. i might be wrong though but thats what i heard on the grapevine.

Either way, the distributor of vegas itself here in aus isnt even a Beta tester and one would think that Sony would consider them (at least) as theyre the only channel (aside from Direct download or OS purchase) so IMO should at least have the opportunity to offer some feedback about the application before its launch.

Market demographic is huge, and lets face it, here in Aus, msot vegas users are either audiophiles or wedding videographers.
Its no bad thing, but the market here in aus is so stagant in regard to mentalities pertianing to NLE of choice that the distributor has his work cut out for him in regard to educating the public about the benefits of Vegas itself
Premiere heads REALLY ARE premiere heads and here in aus, most of them are so set in their ways it isnt funny.

Problem is is that the distributors find out at the same time we do.
With V6 it was a lil different and we got a small headsup about it before launch, but in the end theyre in the same boat we are.

These are just my observations and things might have changed since then, but i would at least expect a distributor to be offered Beta status

"In fact, one thing ive lawyas wanted in vegas was to choose Pal or NTSC during instal, this will inherantly leave the "fine" tweaking to a minimum as we conitnue to go through almost every aspect of the "defaults' and change them to PAL to suit our needs. "

I had to replace my edit PC, few weeks ago. As we were testing out the installation, we installed V6. Dropped a clip on time line and found that there was no vid on external monitor. After spending half-a-day getting updates on XP pro, fire wire drivers etc. -- Inspiration. Check properities, select PAL DV. Problem solved..

. .and you didn't contact me Mahesh? Shame on you!! I could have saved you all that heartache. .

Glad you got it set up.

Regards

Grazie

its funny though, to those of us who work with different formats its instinct to make sure settings are all ok for what were doing, but its jstu not soemthign most people consider.
Edius on teh other hand bases its instal on your geographic position, and in turn, offers framerates suitable to a majority of thsoe neds, Like vegas, it allows u to mess around with settings and the like after the fact, but the bais remains into the native format in which u live

Its only a smal thing, but its easily overlooked

If I was thinking logically, Graham, there would not have been a problem. I would have later on, after my IT savvy twins had given up. Trouble is. I fall for this every time.
As DJPadre says, may be Sony need to acknowledge us, PAL's and pin our colours on installation.

couldn't NOT think about project setting - especially now when working with both dvd and hdv. it would seem very unprofessional not to check such basics before a project. then again, i once went out on a shoot for abc(us) armed with a sony 303 pal camera, and a bvw35 ntsc. didn't think to check at the rental house, and only when i saw pal bars in the viewfinder did it hit home!

anyway, it's all well and good for sony to perpetuate the idea that all other systems are secondary to ntsc, but i did, and do object to specific system bugs, such as mention previously, that make me feel somewhat of a guinea pig.

i certain hope that if vp8 is a 'complete' rewrite, then equal attention has been paid to the pal implementation....

leslie

If open a KNOWN old PAL project, the Properties get FORCED to that OLD Project settings - then check the START All Projects . . option and you are good to go.

But yes, one does this so infrequently it isn't an "issue" - mostly!! LOL

Grazie

ushere, thing is, u can be working in a HDV project and render out to DV wihtout the need to even go back into project settings...
i mean for HDV, most people would pick the right one to begin with, but then not ever go back to that screen EVER

thing is, for some poeple, they might jsut open vegas and as its default, jsut drop those files in without thinking.. professional or not, people do this.. trust me... ive been teaching people NOT to do this for the last 4 or so years. lol

How about you open up Project Properties once, set it to PAL, check the little box tht says "start all projects with these settings", click [ OK ] and be done with it?

"But yes, one does this so infrequently it isn't an "issue" - mostly!!"
As you say, its not an issue. I was just illustrating my 'unprofessional' approach. I use it every day, 24-7. I only check properties, if I need to change. I only change settings when necessary. I know, that VV is an NTSC default NLE. For PAL, I need to change properties, ruler, etc - but sometimes I forget.

Talking about settings, has one tried to set them all, from scratch, recently.?

Beta testers aren't allowed to reveal their status, let alone say anything about the product they're testing.

Problem is Vegas is inexpensive and easy to use, there's very little about it that really prompts you to proceed with caution.
Having said that I'm as guilty as anyone, many's the time I've been doing an audio project and then switched to a video project and forgotten to change audio sample rates. A couple of suggestions I'd make:

1) Stick something on the title bar along with the project name, can't be hard to code.
2) Put anything on the T/L that doesn't conform to the project settings and it changes color. Might ring the odd alarm bell. I think FCP does something like this with various shades depending on how far off the mark it is.

Bob.

"How about you open up Project Properties once, set it to PAL, check the little box tht says "start all projects with these settings", click [ OK ] and be done with it?"
It is not an issue with me. All I was trying to say was, on a new PC, with new OS and new firewire card, we testing various software. When V6 did not show output on ex mon, our thoughts went to, driver updates and NOT project properites. Unprofessional, I know but we all make mistakes.

chienworks...

setting it to pal default isn't a problem - the problem is switching between dv and hdv projects, etc.,

i used to beta test years ago, signed nda's etc., but i'd be happier if i knew there actually were pal beta testers, not necessarily who they are...

leslie

Leslie, another suggestion i've made before is that you save empty .veg files in each of the configurations you're likely to use with appropriate names, like 'PAL DV', 'PAL Widescreen', 'HDV 1080i', etc. Place shortcuts to these .veggies on your desktop or in the Start menu. Then when you want to start a project double-click the appropriate .veg icon rather than the Vegas icon. Vegas will launch, load the blank project with the correct properties and settings, and Bob's your uncle.

It's not hard when you know it needs to be dealt with, it could maybe be done better but that's another story. If you're a new user who doesn't know it HAS to be dealt with it's all too easy not to deal with it.

I don't even recall any of the training material I've watched going over this area. Just look back over some of the questions that get asked on this forum and that's by the new users who are wise enough to think maybe they're doing something wrong. One could easily go from camera to Vegas to Youtube and think the mangled image was all Vegas's fault.

Bob.