I have the "DVD Authoring..." DVD/Gary Kleiner that apparently is a NTSC DVD. It plays well on my 120 USD Pioneer DVD-player and with PAL-system (Europe). Don't ask my why, it just does. I don't know what happens if an American would play a PAL DVD. Anyone tried?

Thx Per1 & Worley for your responses!
I guess, I gotta do 'em in both formats.
It's very annoying that these different formats have ever been invented. But there is nothing we can do about it, can't we? ;-)

Thanks again!
Paul

"...when VHS was in the game, we HAD to make different versions in PAL as well as NTSC but now with DVD? "

If it helps at all, it is a bit easier with DVDs... If you can shoot or get your vid at 24 p, then it's not a huge deal adding pulldown flags to the NTSC, & changing the rate for PAL. You'll still have frame size issues, but together with fps it's a lot less hassle than trying to convert PAL to NTSC &/or vice versa.

"...Other may have older televisions that similarly will not accept an NTSC signal."

FWIW I've been told several times that what happens is the PAL DVD [or NTSC capable EU VHS] player will output a semi-legal PAL signal that the [PAL] TV *Should* accept.

"I don't know what happens if an American would play a PAL DVD. Anyone tried?"

In general the (usually cheaper) Chinese engineered/manufactured players will play both PAL & NTSC -- it's cheaper to make one set of innards that'll work in the majority of situations & ship it around the world. As more well known brands have started using the same innards from China, they'll increasingly play PAL DVDs too. The catch is if they will output a legal or semi-legal TV signal when a conversion is necessary... I've read of some that do, but the availability of PAL discs in NA is slim enough that I imagine only a relative handful have ever tried, so there's probably no way to guess-timate any sort of percentage. Since you're not supposed to play out-of-region discs, I don't imagine any company would advertise the capability here in the litigation happy US.

Paul,
I'm in the same "jam". I too prob. have to make a DVD for both NTSC and PAL... Hate it. I thought the Americans were a consuming nation, just loving to get the latest hardware... from Japan... :)
The French and some East European countries have some 3rd standard I think... Will not care much about that - it's time to kill off this diversity by not making good DVDs like mine available in obscure places like Paris ;)

MPM,

"hassle than trying to convert PAL to NTSC &/or vice versa"

Hmm... this was interesting. We will record with some broadcast quality cams (Panasonic?) that might only output PAL video (I have no idea actually if that even makes sence technically...). But if we do get PAL Video - what to do in Vegas to convert? Do you know of a topic here that discuss this (since this is the DVDA branch and we shouldn't digress from the topic...)

Hmm... when making a DVD in DVDA you can Optimize. Is it that simple to just select "NTSC Widescreen (720x480)" instead of "PAL Widescreen (720x576)" or has that drop-down-box nothing to do with the output?
(Somebody told me that the audio format box below was meaningless - you just added 5.1 and D2 to a project and you got both on the same DVD)

If it helps....

"We will record with some broadcast quality cams (Panasonic?) that might only output PAL video..."

My understanding is that this is quite popular to emulate a *film* look -- I think that PAL's 25 fps is so close to film's 24 that they usually just change the fps in the file headers -- play PAL at 24 fps or vice versa. Once you have your 24 fps at PAL frame size, one version of it gets cropped: *square pixel* PAL to *square pixel* NTSC [PAL is wider & taller, despite the D1 spec of 720 width for both]. You can do that in Vegas or VirtualDub or Avisynth (the latter two will be faster & IMHO cleaner).

There's quite a few threads about it at doom9.org & videohelp.com -- I'm not sure about in the Vegas forum... But a lot of it has to do with the nastiness of converting between 25i & 29.976i so you'll have to do a bit of weeding out what you don't want. Vegas help has a decent example of adding pulldown, & you'll find some info in the doom9.org forum re: DGPulldown -- they have an *experimental* pulldown routine for regular 25 to get to 29.976.

DVDA's role should probably be limited to doing PAL or NTSC menus -- IOW feed it PAL or NTSC mpg2 video. I'd suggest being careful with any stills, that they're in the proper WS size & spec to avoid potential problems with the highlights lining up -- I've seen this in earlier versions when DVDA stretched a still background.

If you research the DVD end of things on-line, you'll probably find a lot of discussion on things not lining up, posted mostly by people ripping... However the only real differences are the final frame or device size -- not a problem if you create a PAL & NTSC layout with separate backgrounds, & render your subs separately rather than re-use (not something you'ld likely do anyway),

In the end I'd expect the hardest part might actually be testing... I wonder if it'd be worth it to create a parallel project using short, video test content so it'd be easier for someone on another continent to download? I've read of people having really a lot of problems getting real PAL players & TVs working in the US, & the reverse in Europe because of our power differences, not to mention getting the gear shipped in the 1st place.

"it's time to kill off this diversity by not making good DVDs like mine available in obscure places like Paris ;)"

The history of it is full of "Mine's better than yours"! Everyone doing video would love 1 std -- every nationalistic politician will likely make sure we never get our way. )?{

MPM,
Thanks for good input. It seems that one have to make 2 parallel projects, taking what the camera ouputs and convert to 2 sets of complete movies in Vegas and 2 DVDA projects for each standard (NTSC and PAL). OK, this was a bit more than I'd expected but what can be said other than US is a big market and it has to be done. No discussion about that.
Yes, getting a NTSC to work in Europe would prob. be a challange. As you say, doing short takes and making an ISO-image and FTP for review in the US might be the only option.

Hey Per1!

Guess you are british...speaking so bad about the frenchies..;-)

>>I'm in the same "jam". I too prob. have to make a DVD for both >>NTSC and PAL... Hate it.

Ask me dude! I did this 10 years long during VHS times. It was mega-hassle. Encoding 2 times, making different covers (each stating the format), 2 different orders at reproduction companies and and and..

>>Will not care much about that - it's time to kill off this diversity by >>not making good DVDs like mine available in obscure places like >>Paris ;)

Haha, well, I had issues with french customers ealier. PAL-SECAM. Urrg....don't remind me on these times! I had 3 stubborn customers which requested SECAM converted tapes.
I'm glad that at least these times are over now.


Well, so I'm gonna make PAL + NTSC versions of my DVD's. It's also pain in the butt since you do not really have a feedback how the NTSC version may look on NTSC equipment. I mean, I can set my TV and DVD player to NTSC mode but it does not really give you the opportunity how it would look on REAL NTSC gear. I'm quite worried about that because I care a lot about my video-projects and besides that, I'm a friggin' perfectionist.

Thanks to all who replied to my initial thread. I think this is an interesting one since many people may have to deal with this problem.

Paul

Nightworker,

English? Please no ;) Sweden! - A nation with many (Royal) connections with Germany :) [Alright - this needs indepth knowledge of the political preferences of former Swedish Royalty - we will not go into that... too sensitive...] ;)

Well, yupp, I have to make 2 versions then... PAL first, perhaps by the time I have the NTSC ready there will more chances of playing PAL in the US... Fat chance... :)

Välkom Per!
Sweden is my 2nd home. One core-member of my team lives there. Nice country!

Guess the SONY admins will kick us out soon because of all this private talk. But what the heck.

CU ** Paul

Here is my experience.

I bought a cheap television and a cheap DVD player. No problems playing NTSC DVDs here in PAL land.

A customer of mine had newish (5 year old) Sony branded television and DVD player. The DVD player would play the NTSC discs, but the television would now display the picture.

What you may find happens is that the TV will accept a PAL 60 signal, not an NTSC signal. This basically means a picture will display, but there will be no colour - this is what I used to get when replaying VHS tapes.

Worley

If it helps at all...

Here in the US things are not as strict as they used to be because content providers desperately want to use EU & AU content to avoid Hollywood production costs (BTW filming in CA is huge because of this). Also please bear in mind that our original NTSC standards were based [1/2 a century ago+] on analog broadcast content being carried over thousands of miles via electrical cables. Nowadays TVs are much more forgiving as the vast majority of households use cable or sat feeds with off std signals, & we don't even make TVs ourselves anymore.

It occurs to me that *maybe* a way to test converted video if you have any doubts might be to contact some of the many, many PBS or smaller, local broadcasters about supplying a video short program?

RE: hardware... It can seem pretty complicated going through how NTSC, PAL, & SECAM signals work, carry audio & color info etc., but in this case the main thing I think to remember is that a NTSC DVD player will only output a NTSC signal the TV will understand. Often the only requirement is that the mpg2 is encoded to 720 x 480, though having pulldown added or using 29.976 fps is a good idea since often doesn't cut it for distribution. :?P

The issues to focus on then are those regarding how will it look. Framing might be an issue during shooting/editing because our screens are smaller [& please don't forget overscan]. You should investigate color range or gamut, as very strictly speaking ours is less also, BUT, as I mentioned things aren't as strict any longer & I'm almost certain it won't be an issue [3/4 of the mainstream DVDs I've seen use the PC color range plus a player will not output a signal the TV can't handle]. Applying the strict NTSC color filters in Vegas is the safer route, but IMHO it'll seem like the life's been literally sucked out of your picture.

Probably the most common error I've seen with PAL converted content, & this includes cable distribution, is aspect ratio, & about the only way to really check it is on NTSC devices..Threads & posts I've read about getting NTSC equipment working outside North America I think usually involves getting a power supply (not cheap) to run NTSC gear you manage to have shipped over (not cheap or easy - but not impossible). I'd guess that for checking the basics like aspect ratio the easiest and cheapest method might be getting your hands on a portable DVD player with LCD display or perhaps a separate DC powered small TV. They'd use wall worts, so finding and buying new ones would take the place of an expensive power supply.

If one sets the project to NTSC in Vegas will that not show viewable area and one then can use Track Motion to scale the image to fit entirely.
Is that a good way?
(Re-rendering is needed of course)