I saw a demonstration of the Canon by a factory rep last week. The picture is absolutely gorgeous, but I was VERY disappointed with the 24f setting. About every 1/2 second the picture stuttered, probably due to the pulldown. I was worried that this was due to its long GOP recording, but 30i was just brilliant.

I love the 1080p at 24f and 30f that the [HVX200] camera can do.

Umm, you may want to check the user forums on that one...

I've a bit confused on the licensing of DVCpro HD because vegas uses a DVCpro25 codec. I dont see why it would be so much of a problem to write a DVCpro100 codec. I would take the cost as a consumer for the licensing fee. Its better than having to switch back to avid. Vegas is my favorite NLE and I would hate to change it, but if I must I must and so I would have to say bye to Vegas (hopefully not forever). I probably will not get the HVX200 until April so when Vegas 7 is released I can make my bias decision at that time. That is if Vegas does not supports the codec, then the chose will be Avid.

The P2 cards are little pricey and low on space (currently). Citidisk has released a 80 to 120gb recorder for the HVX200 which would help out with the space problem. Thats why I was going to use it as a B camera only on events. My primary will be my Z1U. I just hope the quality matches up with the two cameras and one does not look better than the other. I think that the solid state cards are the way of the future, just look at digital photography today. Just think real on-camera audio. no background motor noise. wow!

I have not used or worked with the XL H1, all I know about the 24F and 30F mode (I'm going by what the Z1U does in that mode) is it cuts the interlaced field into one field and squeezes it together (thats explanation I was told) and it looks OK in HD but nothing that amazing. I just wish they would have used a progressive ccd imager and not an interlaced imager, that would have geared me more toward the XL H1. I'll stick with my Z1 for now for the interlaced stuff.


Mark

I know the HVX200 records on the P2 cards 1080p 24f and 30f as 60i using 3:2: pull down but the CCD imager of the HVX200 works in 60p which is very different than all the HDV cameras which use only 60i imagers. So you should get much better quality out of the HVX200. However something that worried me about the HVX200 is that panasonic would not give the pixel amount of the CDD imager.


Mark

No, no what you were seing were "controled environment clips." HDV (and for taht matter HVX200 too) both fail in real working environmnet. HDV compression is unacceptable (try some hand held). And both ave very noise in dark areas (way noiser then DVX100). Moreover HVX200 has almost unusable viewfinder....

HDV compression is unacceptable (try some hand held)
Patryk, while your work shows you are very good with cameras and what you do, that statement is simply absurd. Maybe you can't shoot with HDV, but many people can. Our footage shot for National Geographic has aired, same with our CMT motocross race footage. Many, many shows have aired with handheld HDV shots. MTV, HBO, Discovery, Showtime, Sundance Channel, BTS for King Kong, Van Cliburn PBS special, JAG, NCIS, 24, Food Network, Nightline, Good Morning America, La Raza, Today Show...the list goes on, and on, and on.
Additionally, there are at least 4 independent films that were accepted at Sundance that I know for certain were shot on HDV. I'm sure that in 2007, we'll see at least a dozen shot on HDV or DVCProHD.
Either you've not really worked with HDV, or you've just not worked much with HDV. There are too many great, good, poor, and average shooters including myself that have demonstrated your statement is way off in space. Like anything HD, shooting this format takes some practice and different style. Canon, JVC, and Sony all have great HDV offerings that can be found on most production locations these days, even if it's just for documenting the shoot. "Miami Vice" shot the film with a Vipercam, but using Z1's for crash cams to be intercut with the Viper, and they're shooting all the BTS footage with the Z1's. When Miami Vice comes out in the theatre, or on BluRay, I guess we'll really be able to see what's what, I guess.
HDV isn't HDCAM, but it is also far from being "unusable." Handheld or otherwise.

All I can add is I've seen some horrible hand held HDV, sure the HDV codec made a mess of it, probably a good thing too. If your hand held work is so bad the codec can't cope your audience will not either.
Maybe that could be a feature in the next generation HDV camcorders, when the encoder seriously runs out of bandwidth it adds a red cross over the frame.
I'm probably being a little harsh. HiDef is aimed at a bigger screen and meant to fill more of the viewers field of vision. If it's not being viewed that way then HD doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
Now in that viewing scenario (think cinema not TV) you have to be very careful what you do with a camera, HDV or HDCAM, it doesn't matter.

Bob.

I'll also add that Patryk is right about the HVX200 viewfinder. How anybody would use it on even a SD camera would beggar belief. The flip out LCD isn't much better. On both the viewfinder and LCD you can see the LCD line structure in both the horizontal and vertical axis! Its like looking through chicken wire!

Yes, i didn't specify that i was looking at HDV/HD for big screen projections so footage that looked splendit on small screen had too look equally good on 60" plasma.... and it didn't.

From what I keep reading, I get the hint that nobody real likes the HVX200? Is that true? I have not used the camera yet in a working environment so I still can not give a judgement. I just liked the less compression format. I like my Z1 and I have not had any problems with artifacts. I owned a HD1 at one time and boy what that camera learning experience in HD..lol, but it was worth it

I'm still wondering how a 25mb/s HDV file will work with the 31mb/s (I think thats right, if I'm wrong please let me know) Blu-ray players. Its kind of like shooting everything in mpeg2 and rendering it back into mpeg2 to play. That makes me a little worried about HDV on blu-ray.

I am hoping for a blu-ray option on the new archtect program. It might be worht it since a few blu-ray and HD-DVD player/recorders are to be release in the third quarter.

Mark

Patryk,
We're displaying it on 24' screens, and I've seen it on 60' screens. Can't get much bigger than that.
HDV shot badly is no different than HDCAM shot badly, except that you're likely to notice more issues. Just like with DV. Compression just makes the bad practices more noticable.
Additionally, you may have been looking at HDV/HD on a 60" plasma that actually is 1300 x 800 or so, and has bad scaling, or simply looks bad overall.
BTW, you're absolutely right about the HVX viewfinder. What a piece of ***!