Particle Illusion - render formats

Jack S wrote on 9/28/2023, 10:01 AM

Has anyone got any experience with Particle Illusion? I acquired the standalone version with Title Studio and I wanted to output a video from it that has a transparent background. Unfortunately the render format options are perplexing for someone like me who is not savvy on the subject. I know it should have an alpha channel, but that's about all. I want to be able to pull it into Vegas Pro so that it overlays another event with its background allowing the event to show through. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks in advance.

Comments

Jack S wrote on 9/28/2023, 10:42 AM

I believe I've figured it out. If I use the ProRes 4444 + Premultiplied Alpha preset then specify in the media properties in Vegas Pro that the alpha channel is premultiplied, that does it. It does come at a filesize cost though. If anyone knows of a better render setting, I'm all ears.

EDIT - I've found that I can leave the media properties Alpha setting at 'Straight unmatted'.

Former user wrote on 9/28/2023, 5:00 PM

@Jack S Hi, that's about it, this setting imports into Vegas with it's alpha already set at Straight unmatted as you said, you only need to change the Preset to ProRes 444 + Straight Alpha & the rest adjusts itself, apart from the Premultiplied option the others are Format/Codec MP4/H264 that don't support alpha, 👍

Jack S wrote on 9/29/2023, 4:12 AM

@Former user Thanks for responding. I can live with the file size trade off.

mark-y wrote on 9/29/2023, 9:35 AM

From the User Guide:

There are two output formats to choose from: MP4 and ProRes.

ProRes is the preferred format, as it’s the only way to embed an alpha channel into the video — select one of the ProRes Presets that contain alpha. (With MP4 you must render the RGB and Alpha as two separate files.)

Former user wrote on 9/29/2023, 11:23 AM

@Former user Thanks for responding. I can live with the file size trade off.

@Jack S 👍 Yep, I had to accept that a while ago when i found out ProRes worked better in Vegas for me generally, esp when working with effects, I now convert many of my MP4s to ProRes despite the huge file size. 🤷‍♂️

Former user wrote on 9/29/2023, 5:08 PM

@Jack S Hi, I don't know how familiar you are with PI or if you know this, you say you got the 'standalone version' but I don't know if yours is the plugin version, the Free PI won't import a background image but what Boris don't mention is that you can add an image that will be close enough that when you import the PI video into Vegas it will be close enough that you only have to make slight adjustments to make it fit as whatever overlay you're using for,

Check the PI project is the correct size, Double click to add the Basic emitter, you can then add a pic as the particle type, & delete (maybe just disable) the added basic emitter before exporting.

If you already know this sorry I thought it might be useful so had to mention it, & if you can't follow this vid just let me know.👍

Jack S wrote on 9/30/2023, 4:50 AM

@Former user I'm a total PI novice. I'm not sure yet what I'm going to use it for, but as your video shows, there are some interesting emitters. I'll have to watch the video several times to allow it to sink in. In it you imported an image. Can you import a video also?
It looks as if the learning curve is quite steep. I'll have to search YT for some tutorials.
Thanks again for your input.

Dexcon wrote on 9/30/2023, 7:37 AM

In it you imported an image. Can you import a video also?

This question was asked on BorisFX's forum a couple of years ago, and the highlighted text is the response from BorisFX's Senior Product Manager:

https://forum.borisfx.com/t/add-a-background-image-to-pi-standalone-free/11087

I do recall that a method was given around that time by a user on BorisFX's forum of how to import a still image into PI SAL, but I've not seen so far any way to import a video background.

Please keep in mind that PI SAL is a free product readily available from BorisFX's website - I've always taken free 'feature limited' products as being an inducement to purchase the paid plugin version. Some reported a few years ago getting BorisFX Title Studio SAL free with their MAGIX/VEGAS purchase, but TS SAL couldn't be used as a plugin and there were no export/render options in the SAL version - so experimentation was possible but the results couldn't be used in any NLE project.

Former user wrote on 9/30/2023, 7:52 AM

@Jack S Hi, each of the emitters individual particles are just an image, a png shape with a transparent background, in that video I'm just using a picture as the particle shape & telling PI to use just a 'Single Particle', then making that one particle the size of the screen, so i'm not really importing an image as such.

Some particles have a little red triangle on them meaning they are a sequence of images, when you choose one of those there are <> arrows below the 'New Shape' top right where you can flick through what images are in that sequence, so you could sort of add a video as a sequence but I haven't tried it with what could be called a video clip....

Just tried it on a short clip, PI was a little slow initially (maybe my pc needs cleaning) so I'm not sure how many images in a sequence you could have but it worked 👍 I'm not sure I would export from PI with a video added like that but it would work as a background template so you can position other emitters.. or maybe use it as an added looped effect/image/emitter.. 🤷‍♂️

It looks as if the learning curve is quite steep.

Yes in a way, but there's only about 4-5 settings that are important, Size, Life, Velocity, Weight... the rest of the controls just tweak those or add a bit of diversity to the mix. like motion, spin, turbulence etc..

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@Dexcon Hi, I was creating this comment above & in the meantime you commented, I had a look at that link to Boris you shared & at the bottom is a link to this post https://forum.borisfx.com/t/yes-it-worked-background-video-plate-in-standalone-free/8458/9 which is essentially the same as my video above about importing a sequence of images, in that thread they seem to struggle with long clips as i mentioned but on shorter clips it was fine, That post is now 2yrs+ old so maybe PI has changed, maybe not but a bit of experimentation.......... 👍

Dexcon wrote on 9/30/2023, 10:36 AM

In April this year on BorisFX's forum, BorisFX's Senior Product Manager fairly much repeated the same advice re background images; https://forum.borisfx.com/t/free-version-particle/16257

You are correct - in the free version of Particle Illusion you cannot import source shots.

The workaround is for you to use the free trial version of PI, which is installed with Boris Continuum, into the host of your choice and set up the effect the way you want it using the host video and once you have it set up the way you want, save the Particle Illusion project to the desktop. From there, all you have to do is open the saved PI project in the free version of PI and then export the animation to the desktop. It’s a totally free and very easy process.

From a business perpective, it would (IMO) be counter-intuitive to allow video backgrounds to be imported into PI SAL free because users would then be able to do their PI work in the free SAL version and use the PI SAL render in their main NLE project. Result: a loss of sales for BorisFX as some/many would then not need to buy PI as a plugin. An alternative could be to sell a fully functioning version of PI SAL at a price commensurate with the plugin price (currently $295 USD) - but then, wouldn't PI be more useful as a plugin rather than round-tripping to and from PI SAL?