Thanks for the reply. I tried that just now. Even tried muting everything (including the "wave" control) except for the master volume. Only thing that stopped the noise was muting the master volume (i.e. killing everything).

I understand that modern systems no longer need the audio cable from the CDROM to the MB. My newer PC doesn't have one, everything works great. I believe it uses the "CD Digital" connection natively. So if you have a cable, get rid of it.

Otherwise, too many variables. Try an external sound card (borrow one to verify?). I've heard that MB audio is a stinker, though I have had fairly good luck with mine so far.

Yipe,
no need for an analogue connection to a CD drive these days.
Plus as others have noted the pickup of noise from mobo sound cards is very bad and I doubt there's anyhting practical you can do about it, even just for playback it's pretty bad on two of my mobos.

Get any form of external sound card that runs off its own power supply should sure fix this. I have the M-Audio Firewire 410 but that might be a bit over the top if you're not recording.

Bob.

I disconnected the analog wire from CD to mobo. There were two of those cables, one for each optical drive. CDs play fine without them, so I'll give them a new home inside the trash.. Thanks for the pointer there. The more cables, etc. I can remove the better.

Unfortunately the noise problem is still there. Unless somebody has another quick solution I can try (which perhaps is unlikely), I guess I'll need to get an external sound card. And I'm totally agreeing with Bob that it should use its own power supply. Connecting to PC power will only pass the ground loop voltage fluctuations right on to it.

Is there a preference for FW over USB, or is it six of one and half a dozen of the other? I'll look up that M-Audio FW 410 to learn more. As I said, I have no experience with external sound cards and welcome your veteran advice :-)

Thanks again,

Jay Hancock

Well actually my Firewire 410 is running from the PC power supply via the 1394 cable at thhe moment and no problems at all. Thing is all those high speed digital signals running around inside the PC case get into the analogue circuits very easily. For that reason I've never been too keen on any sound card inside the same box as the rest of the PC although all the good ones seem to do OK. So the problem is not so much perhaps the power supply, after all that's easy enough to filter it's the RF from the data busses etc getting into the low level analogue circuits and that's much harder to prevent.

In general firewire is better than USB for external audio devices. 1394 involves the CPU less than USB so if you need multiple audio channels in and out I suspect 1394 will perfrom better. That's not to say if you just need something better than mobo audio you need to spend a bundle, there's plenty of USB gizmos that'd do better than what's on the mobo, particularly if you never need to record from mics or line.

Bob.

Hi Jay.

I have both USB and Firewire M-Audio external devices - they both work very well. I've always been amazed how well the in-computer audio devices work - there should be so much digital noise creeping in you shouldn't be able to hear the audio. That said, even though the technology is quite amazing, it isn't perfect.

As far as I'm concerned, it makes no sense to allow any analog signal into the computer. You have little control over what goes on in there, and there is great potential for all kinds of interference, from all kinds of sources.

In an external D/A box, the manufacturer of the device has full control - and they can package it up in a totally shielded environment.

The other problem you get with computer sound cards is the infamous mini-phone plugs and jacks. While it is possible to get a good, sheilded connection with these devices, the slightest amount of corrosion causes bad grounds, diode-connections (which allow electricity to flow in one direction, but not the other, causing really bad sound) capacitor connections (which allow high frequencies, but not low ones) and impedance changes. More professional connection systems (even the old standard "RCA" phono connectors) are much more reliable.

Even if you keep audio out of your computer, there is still a good chance for digital interference through "ground loops" and other potential problems. There are books written on how to deal with these kinds of problems, but a good audio interface would be the right place to start.

Good luck.

-Travis

A stab in the dark but maybe a cheap fix....

I had a wretched intermittant buzz coming out of my speakers when first moving into my new computer. I use my "speaker out" from CPU into my stand alone mixing board (so I can monitor and record simultaneously) and then a pair of lines "main out" to my speakers from the mixing board.
(I actually wired two computers into and out of the mixing board, so they could both use the mixer and share the monitor speakers)

I switched my mixer's "mainout -to-speakers" wires from RCAs to 1/4" plugs, back and forth every which way and nothing worked to knock out this awful intermittant buzz. Spent hours checking and taping all connections together to be rock solid they weren't coming loose. I spent hours trying to change wires, turn knobs, push buttons, you name it.... Every time I thought I nailed it ...it came back to taunt me....like fingernails on a blackboard!

I finally brought my woes to my local music store complete with drawings with points and arrows, and everything short of "27 8x10 colored glossies for the blind judge..." (thank you Arlo ) and managed to confuse the entire staff (why would I want to wire two computers together? but that's another story....)
And eventually I came home with some "line in" or "guitar" type grounded/shielded 1/4" beefy wires and finally at long last that #$$##@$% buzz was gone!
It makes sense to need something really shielded when you look behind your machine and electronics and there is this field of parallel wires probably "bleeding" all over each other and the speaker wires were picking up that RF. My solution cost less than $20.....a lot less than therapy if I had to try and live with that buzz!


I still have a loud 460W so called "Silent power supply" challenge to address but at least it keeps the CPU from having hot flashes and meltdowns and in the wee hours of the morning actually works as a bit of a space heater on my feet!
Which brings up a question of how to isolate that fan noise without sealing off the space which would then make it more likely to trap heat?
If you want to do a voice over would a sheet of foam between my feet and the CPU for a short 20-30min. period be a solution?
What do you other folks do to eliminate noise in a small work space that doesn't fit a "sound booth"?
And if you make a temporary sound booth how do you watch your CPU screen while recording if you would like to do that as well?

Good Luck,
Teaktart

p.s. The beauty of using a mixer is that I can jack anything that makes a sound into it and record directly into Vegas, Sound Forge, Acid, etc. I'm using what was a $250 Behringer mixer bought about 4 years ago and you could get for about $150 or less now. My next mixer I want to be battery powered for live recording onsite..... Maybe this would be more useful than an external sound card box....for about the same investment. Musician's Friend is a good resource for audio gear and fairly priced. Oh yeah, the mixer also has its own power supply so you get that advantage as well....and now that I think of it, I upgraded ALL my in-and-out wires to the beefy groundedshielded 1/4" type and won back my sanity!

I have never heard noise-free sound from mobo audio, although it should be possible using the digital coax or optical output. Doesn't your Klipsch setup have a digital input?

The MIA card sounds great, with real 1/4" jacks. I use that fed from a FW410 for some of my recording needs, with a micpre before the 410 as the micpres in the 410 are only so-so (good but not outstanding).

SilentPCReview is a great resource for the other type of noise problems.

...and the excellent Asus A8N32-SLI mobo is on sale for $164.99 this weekend at Monarch Computer Systems.

My Klipsch powered speakers don't have a S/PDIF input (sure wish they did!). That's an interesting idea, though. If I could get something that accepts a S/PDIF as input and then creates 4 line-level analog outputs that the powered speakers could connect to, it would be great.

Looking around the net it seems that external sound cards (worth considering) are few and far between. They are mostly either $20 USB cards (which I would really question their quality) or very expensive midi setups. Since I'm not running a music studio, it's hard to justify more than $200 for this. But if it makes the difference between whether or not I can get good clean audio monitoring for my Vegas projects, then I'll look at options.

The Focusrite Saffire would come close to your budget, $299 from Sweetwater.
To be honest you never know when you'll need mic inputs.

Bob.

You can get the M-Audio Delta 410 PCI card for ~$100. That should get rid of the noise. I've only ever heard noise once when using a plugin audio card (almost always with onboard, even a little). I never had noise when I had a cheap seperate surround card eigtherm only when I'd use onboard. Go figure. :)

While I don't have a specific action to suggest, what I WOULD suggest is that you go to a hardware site that supports the sound chip on your motherboard and search for things like "mouse buzz" or "mouse interference" or similar terms.

I just did this, and found lots of idiotic stuff that you could waste your time on. The one good piece of advice had to do with muting stuff in the mixer, which you have already done, based on the excellent advice John gave you. However, one post was very specific: mute the digital CD input channel. This reminded me that I have had this problem in the past as well, and muting was the cure.

What I had forgotten was that he offending input channel was one that didn't normally appear on the mixer.

This got me to thinking. Open the Windows audio mixer. Click on Options, and then select Properties. Make sure playback is selected. Now, at the bottom, make sure ALL the items are selected. If one or more of them is not selected, you have hope. Select them all, click on OK, and then mute them all. With luck, when you mute one of them the buzz will go away.

You can also go back to properties, select recording, and then change the inputs for the recording. It is possible that you have a recording input selected that is open (i.e., nothing is connected) and therefore is collecting and amplifying a lot of buzz. The microphone input is the WORST thing to have selected, if a microphone is not connected, because the input is very sensitive and capable of boosting a small signal a very long way.

i have the same board (A8N32-SLI Deluxe) and the built in audio stinks...noise when i move the mouse, noise when the hard drives spin...it is unusable for serious audio. now...i also have a mac mini that does the same thing...so it's not board specific. My solution...get a decent audio interface...I use the Presonus Firebox and it's really nice...no noise, etc. at all. I think you're just banging your head against the crappy limitations of on-board audio.
My 2 cents
jeff

It may be that one of your unused inputs is turned up. In the volume control panel, go to "options" > "properties" > "recording" and see if there is anything selected and turned up that shouldn't be, like an unused microphone input. Also check the "Advanced Properties" under the "Options" menu, this will show an additional button under certain inputs, like a 20db boost on the microphone input.

John

i can mute everything and turn down all the inputs to zero and the noise goes away on my system, but then...what's the point?
You can't hear anything else including your audio. As soon as I unmute the output (while leaving all inputs and outputs muted or at zero) the noise comes back. My box is new with very good components (Enermax server power supply...pretty well shielded). I'd even suggest against an onboard pci interface for audio...try an outboard usb or firewire...gets all that high-gain audio circuitry more or less away from the noise inducing inside of the box.

If your speaker system is self powered it may be a ground loop too.
have you tried a Ground loop isolator on the outputs from the M.B. to the speaker system.
Just another sugg.

BTW:
I am using the firewire 410 on my systems, even on my new system with the same M.B. (actually from your suggestion in another post)didnt even bother installing the drivers for the onboard realtek audio.

I checked all the hidden volumes and made sure they are muted, and that the recording input is not set to mic (it's set to "stereo mix). Tried dropping the level to zero on that. I am learning a lot about this (like keep the mic unselected unless you actually use it). Unfortunately the noise still persists. I'll try looking on the net some more to see if there are any worthwhile known solutions that I haven't tried.

I'd say it is definitely a ground loop - I had exactly the same problem with my laptop and spent a load of money on an expensive USB interface thinking that was the solution. Didn't change a bit - all drive activity and mouse movements set off a cacophony of electrical noise and static.

The supplier advised me to check for a ground loop by temporarily disconnecting the earth at the mains plug for the power adaptor. Result - beautifully noise free audio.

If that is the problem, you will then need a permanent safe fix as suggested above with a hardware ground loop isolator.

gb

Do you happen to have a VCR that is connected to cable TV and then connected to the PC via the RCA audio inputs or anything else? If so, try disconnecting the cable input to the VCR and see if that changes anything. That has been known to cause ground loops. However, the noise seems to be generated inside the PC since you say that hard drive activity and mouse movements cause the noise. In the past, it has been the CDROM cable, in your case, I'm not sure what the problem is exactly. I'm pretty certain that it's analog in nature, in so much as the sound card is picking up some EMI inside the case.

John

ground loops are often caused by devices w/ a/c to d/c transformers connected to thgings like your PC with a grounded a/c plug.
simple enough to eliminate with one of these:
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=ground%20loop%20isolator&origkw=ground%20loop%20isolator

John_Cline: I don't have any analog inputs coming into the PC (no VCR, mics, etc.). But I do plan to be able to connect a small PC mic later once I get this noise problem eliminated. If that ever causes noise, I'd disconnect it.

epirb: I did try a ground loop isolator not so different from the Radio Shack one (except that it has more inputs: XLR, 1/4" TRS, and RCA). I put it on the wire that goes from line out on the PC to the input of the powered speakers. It didn't change a thing. For the sake of knowing whether I had bought a worthless device, I went into the living room and connected it to a home-theater, powered subwoofer that has been sufferring from 60 Hz hum. At higher volume levels it cut off 10db of hum! (Yeah, I measured it with a sound meter). So now I have a great little gadget for my home theater which I could also connect to the XLR inputs on my Z1 (like if I tap out of a PA system at a concert). So while it wasn't a waste of the $30 I spent for it, unfortunately it didn't help my PC.

Gordyboy - my PC and the powered speakers are both connected to the output of a UPS. I kind of figured that since the UPS converts AC to DC and then back to AC again, it should provide isolation from my home's earth ground loops. Maybe I'm wrong? I also tried taking the UPS out of the equation and it didn't help. Maybe I'll try a ground lift using one of those cheapo adapters (3-prong to 2-prong). But I'm kind of thinking that RF noise generated by PC components is the culprit. I guess I should try the ground lift anyway, just as a part of the troubleshooting.

If connecting a somewhat expensive USB audio interface still picks up noise from the PC, maybe moving it away from the PC would help, but I would assume such a device would be shielded. And perhaps one with its own independent power supply is a good idea (maybe noise gets into the USB power?).

Also, I find that the problem is present in the headphones connection too. No surprise there.

Still quite baffled...

Hmmmm, look into the UPS and or the power supply. UPSs generally, unless they are the expensive kind, output a wave that is close to a square wave. Square waves sound like a buzz, sine waves (as found in ground loops) will sound like hum. It's possible that your pc power supply may not be doing its job properly and letting the square wave bleed through. This could be due, among other things, if the power supply is of insuficient capacity for the loads imposed on it.