PF25 (progressive 25fps shot in 50i wrapper)

Ming-o wrote on 8/30/2016, 5:59 AM

Hi guys!

here is the text media info generates from the video files directly out of my canon legria Hfg10:

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 16s 276ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 735 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 22.7 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan type, store method                  : Separated fields
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 33.474
Stream size                              : 3.29 GiB (96%)

How can I tell wether it is PF25 or 50i?

And if its PF25 what would be the correct way to process in vegas to extract the 25p material from the interlaced container?

I got terrible interlaced artifacts in the blueray I produced! 

Comments

EricLNZ wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:24 AM

Only by looking at the frames.  I've the same camera and in the manual it says that 25p is saved as 50i.

Try exporting a few seconds with deinterlacing set to not deinterlace and look when you play the output or drag it to your timeline to see if you can see any combing.  Pick a shot with plenty of movement.

Personally I don't get problems with 50i.  It's 25p I don't like as any sideways movement which is close or fast is jerky and that's with the shuuter speed set to 1/30.

Ming-o wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:32 AM

I'm seeing an awfull lot of jagged lines, artifacts....I think Im not properly extracting the 25p signal from the video using vegas.

Tried seting the project setting to 50i, fields order -- to progressive and method of deinterlacing -- to none. 
and in the render file progresive also but Im seing a lot of jagged lines and blur

Ming-o wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:41 AM

https://s13.postimg.org/d5w4p9pfr/Capture.jpg

EricLNZ wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:48 AM

Looks like combing from interlacing.  What happens if you have deinterlacing as "interpolate fields"?

OldSmoke wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:49 AM

set your project settings to 25p, field order progressive and deinterlace to interpolate, try blend later if it doesnt work. You also must disable resample on each event. I would actually try to disable resample first.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Ming-o wrote on 8/30/2016, 7:13 AM

Oooooh I would say Oldsmoke's was right on the money...

https://s10.postimg.org/uj54sjs61/Interpolate_progres.jpg

Video
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : High@High
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Default
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Duration                                 : 50s 400ms
Bit rate                                 : 23.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.444
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:00:00
GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame          : Closed
Stream size                              : 138 MiB (100%)

Still Im not entirelly sure wether this way you get the 25p signal out of the 50i wrapper, but the results are certainly much better.

OldSmoke wrote on 8/30/2016, 7:22 AM

Did you use blend or interpolate? As long as your project settings and render settings are 25p, you will get 25p. What messes it up is the resample setting on the event, unfortunatelly it is set by default to smart resample. There are scripts around that can do a batch switching to disable resample, search the forum.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Ming-o wrote on 8/30/2016, 3:16 PM

Interpolate.

There is not an option to make it 25p per se, in order to follow your input I made a custom one in properties: frame rate 25,000(PAL) / field order none (progresive scan) / Deinterlace method: interpolate.

And then set all the clips manually to disable resample. Im guessing clicking in adjust source media to better match project [...] doesnt do that for all clips in the timeline, dunno what that does.

I dont think vegas platinum allows scripts so I guess im stuck with manually setting each clip.

ushere wrote on 8/30/2016, 6:35 PM

Personally I don't get problems with 50i.  It's 25p I don't like as any sideways movement which is close or fast is jerky and that's with the shuuter speed set to 1/30.

surely you mean 1/25th?

EricLNZ wrote on 8/30/2016, 8:13 PM

Yes, should have been 1/25.  Apologies.  I wrote from memory and it was getting late!

PeterDuke wrote on 8/31/2016, 6:58 PM

"How can I tell whether it is PF25 or 50i?"

Place a clip in a 50p project (no deinterlace method) and step through one frame at a time. If the clip is 50i, each field will be converted to a frame and you will see smooth motion from one frame to the next. If it is PF25 then you will get pairs of frames with the same info.

Set preview to Full/Best.