Pipeline...over here.

MyST wrote on 6/24/2004, 7:42 PM
Hi Pipe.
Forgive the new thread, but I wanted to answer you without continuing the other thread.

Sure, I'll be dabbling in 5.1...keyword "dabbling".
I want to add sounds in surround when I start creating video projects in V4.
You know, a slamming door in the left-rear, or a window breaking behind you. That type of stuff for starters. (Actually, I was going to use the example of a dog barking from the rear, but that just didn't sound right). ;-)
5.1 audio is WAY too complex for me to even consider right now!
Wish me luck.

As far as the soundcard, I'm hoping I made the best decision, obviously. I had to base my purchase on advice from many sources.
Actually, there were as many people telling me to make sure I got an "outside the case" solution as there was telling me to try to get balanced inputs.
Stores that cater to Pros/Prosumers really recommended the FW410 (Sweetwater, AudioMIDI, Kelly's Music and Computers, plus local stores).
Here's hoping I wasn't steered wrong.
If I would have gotten the Gina (with balanced In/Outs), that would have barely left me any money for a mic pre-amp, so I would have had to buy a Behringer mixer to do the job. Now, how highly are the Behringers recommended for quality pre-amps?
The Terratec Phase 28 has (I believe) balanced inputs, but NOBODY recommended that card.
The Waveterminal 192L wasn't recommended because the mic pre-amps are too weak to properly amplify a mic.
In the end, I got the best possible solution for the available funds.
Besides, if the FW410 is a flop, it should be fairly easy to sell being it's so easily adaptable to various PCs/Macs.
A PCI card might not be as easy to unload in a few months when PCI-X becomes the norm.
I'm waiting to buy an AGP video card because video cards will also be going to the PCI-X format, so AGPs should be selling cheap shortly.

Mario

Comments

adowrx wrote on 6/24/2004, 7:54 PM
Right now you can start bidding on a MOTU 2408 on ebay for $255.00.
farss wrote on 6/25/2004, 5:57 AM
MyST,
I've a 410, imported it from Sweetwater, excellent service, actually got to speak to a human within 3 rings well after closing time and despite being on the other side of the planet he rang me back and even after shipping followed up with an email to make certain I got the goods OK.
I've had a few dramas with the 410, make certain you get the latest drivers from M-Audio although my problems were limited to using the SPDIF input and followi the installation procedure to the letter, it's a bit unusual and you can get it wrong.
I've used the 410 with a Rhode NT1a to record hours of VOs at home and they sound pretty spiffy in my opinion for my first effort. I know the 410 isn't the worlds best and the pros will look down their noses at it but it's way ahead of anything that you'll find in any video camera as far as mic pres go.
While I'm at it, I love the NT1, I'm biased cause it's made here, but thy're even cheaper in the US, go figure that one, and even Sweetwater give em a good rap. If nothing else when you pull one of those babies out the client at least thinks you're a pro!
For what you do, you might like to look at the Rhode NT4, nice X-Y stereo mic.
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/25/2004, 10:24 AM
myst, that 5.1 sounds like fun, I mean so many new possibilities. I hope the bug doesnt bite me anytime soon though, I still got a LOT of stuff to fix just for stereo
tmrpro wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:10 PM
I've heard some of the cool guitar stacking you do. I like to double track guitar parts too, and pan them discreetly.

I'll tell you Pipe, when you have the opportunity to do that in a 5.1 field, you'll freakin' LOVE IT!!!

I did some things with my stacked rhythm guitars where I still did two track discreet odd/even pannings... but doing one guitarist (same part recorded twice or "stacked") all the way on the right; one track front R and the other rear R .... same approach with the other guitarist, but all left (front and rear stack) ... Bass middle (no center speaker but added LF) and individual drums in circular pan settings!!! Vocals have a good apparancy in the center speaker but is fielded further to the rear....

It is freakin' amazing... you'll find yourself doing a lot less envelopes when you have all the placement capabilities because everything is so easily heard from a physical standpoint.
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:14 PM
Whats the delivery format? Are people buying music in 5.1? Im WAY out of touch with this side of things. How impossible does control room design become for 5.1 mixing? We have an idle room of sorts. Are there maybe some sort of headphones that can do this, I mean whats the easiest way to just jump in and mess around on the cheap? see, now Im in trouble
MyST wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:22 PM
I recommend you start with a Firewire 410 soundcard. LOL!!

Mario
Cold wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:38 PM
Hey pipe, to start on the cheap, use a high current consumer amp with 5.1 inputs and monitor with whatever extra nearfields you have kicking around.
The best way is of course 5 matched speakers and sub, but don't take this way on the cheap unless you're planning on taking them home for a home theatre when you upgrade. If you are using mismatched front to rear or left right to centre make sure to ballance the levels. This will at least give you a taste.
Steve S.
tmrpro wrote on 6/25/2004, 12:39 PM
PipelineAudio Said:
Whats the delivery format? Are people buying music in 5.1? Im WAY out of touch with this side of things. How impossible does control room design become for 5.1 mixing? We have an idle room of sorts. Are there maybe some sort of headphones that can do this, I mean whats the easiest way to just jump in and mess around on the cheap? see, now Im in trouble

Yeah .... well, before I actually had the 5.1 room, I just added speakers in the control room. I would rent two more pairs of BAS2020s (didn't use one speaker) and added a descent consumer level audiofile sub.

It worked great ...but my control room has never been a very good monitoring room acoustically. It's really large, non-symetrical and has a low ceiling.

Your delivery is 6 mono wav files at up to 192k/24bit for DVD-Audio.

I really don't understand why the industry didn't just use AC3 as the common format. 24/96 AC3s sound great!

Yes, uncompressed audio is better, but man ....I think that the industry would fair MUCH better if they did not have to try and convince the consumers to buy a surround sound audio system, and instead; sold them DVDs with AC3s that will play in their exsisting home theater surround sound system.

DVD-Audio Sales are not proving to be what the industry had hoped for ..... not yet anyway...

The concept of I-Tunes is smokin' in sales. All the mac PT guys are using I-Pods now for file delivery, cause you can get 'em with a 40 gig drive...

....pretty kewl!

drbam wrote on 6/25/2004, 3:16 PM
Reality check 5.1 question: how many people do any of you actually know personally that listen to MUSIC CDs on 5.1 systems? I don't know one single person and neither does a half dozen other engineers I've checked with. I'm confused about all this. . .

drbam
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/25/2004, 3:33 PM
I havent
Ive played games on one though
Rednroll wrote on 6/25/2004, 5:15 PM
Reality check 5.1 question: how many people do any of you actually know personally that listen to MUSIC CDs on 5.1 systems?

You know one....me. Also, we are selling roughly 300-500K surround systems per year mostly in luxary class vehicles. We currently produce surround systems for BMW, Lexus, Maybach,Mercedes, Chrysler and Toyota. There are scheduled surround systems for more medium class priced vehicles being released within the next couple years. The 2004 Toyota 4-runner, and Sienna have premium JBL surround systems with more models slated in the near future for Toyota. The Acura GL has a 5.1 Panasonic DVD-audio system in it. I believe the car is more where people listen to the majority of their music on the drive to and from work and can be set up to be an ideal surround listening environment, rather than sitting in their living room in their ,leisure time listening to their home theatre. The more people become familiar with surround listening, the more it will be desired. From my insider perspective, you're going to know a lot more people in the near future.
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/25/2004, 9:49 PM
but what are they listening to? where do I buy the surround version os Stormtroopers of Death ?
Rednroll wrote on 6/26/2004, 9:18 AM
All of the systems I mentioned except for the Panasonic system, have the ability to take a DVD and use the Lt/Rt mixdown and decode it back to surround. The same for a CD, it will take the stereo mixdown and steer material based off of phase relationships of the right and left stereo channels. If the stereo signal was encoded with Dolby pro Logic II or Logic 7, it will decode it back properly to 5.1 surround. So for your storm troopers of death it will make it more like a surround mix, with the vocals more present in the center channel, side panned information will be steered to the sides and Left/Front + Right/front speakers depending where the original part was panned and how hard. It will take reverb and ambience and steer it more towards the rear speakers. The overall effect is a surround listening experience that is more spacious with improved imaging and seperation. I've even heard in these systems where it was able to take an AM MONO sports broadcast, and the announcers voice would be steereed more towards the center channel, but the crowd ambience/cheers would be coming from the rear surrounds.