Thanks Ed for the help...I very much appreciate it....

So it will take up extra space....ummmm...Another quickie if I may....If I have the "playall"+ split the 1 file into 5 seperate chapters, will this in practice mean doubling the space (apart from sace from menus, buttons intro media etc...)?

Thanks again!

Take care,

Paul.

Yes. In fact, the two methods *may* be virtually identical in size. If it is easier for you to visualize, just include them twice - once as a whole pieces and each of them in sections.

Thanks again...

Cheers,

Paul.

That doesn't make sense to me (the part about having two separate files). If the 'play all' button simply points to the beginning of the combined file and you've added chapter points (in and out) to that same file for the various 'chapter' buttons, aren't you still just using the one file?

I could see a little extra overhead in terms of file size, but I can't see a doubling of the file.

What am I missing? Obviously, I haven't gotten that far in my learning curve.

Thanks.
Jake

I hate to contridict the previous posts - but that is not how you do it.

You don't have to have the file on there twice - and you don't have to set the chapter points to play the files.

You do - however, set in/out points, but just copy the menu item as it points to the one file.

It doesn't really take up that much space (you re only "duplicating" pointers...not video).

I put together a little "how to" and had it on my website last week for someone else. But I took it down already.

Drop me an e-mail and I"ll put it back on my website for your and send you the URL.

You can reach me at: kjvpresents@hotmail.com

Thanks, kameronj. That's pretty much what I was thinking (one file, different pointers). That makes much more sense to me.

Jake

I wouldn't mind seeing the demo because I don't quite get the difference between chapter points and in/out points.

Jake,

My pleasure.

Sure thing...drop me an e-mail and I'll send you the URL.



Uh....oops. On second thought - it may have to wait until tomorrow.

I think I already deleted it (from my web and my HD). No biggie - I can recreate it and post it tomorrow.

Chat with ya.

Isn't that what I said in my first post? Create multiple menu items and specify the IN and OUT points? (The IN points are chapter points!)

Jetdv,

Yes, that is what you said and that made perfect sense to me. What I questioned was the part about the doubling of the file size (meaning the same file is recorded twice on the disk). That did not make sense to me.

If you use the same file (start of file for Play All, and in/out points for the other 'chapters'), my question was why would the space on the DVD be almost doubled in size?

I'm not attacking, just asking for clarification.

Jake

It seems logical that it would NOT change the size any and I have not done any testing to verify one way or the other. However, I mentioned this as an option one other time and here is the exact text from the e-mail (">" in front of my original suggestions, response in bold):

> When setting chapter points, you can specify in AND out points. This
> would allow the video to be placed ONCE on the DVD, a play all
> button, and the ability to play segments.





Now, whether or not this is true, I do not know as I have not tested it. The response DID come from someone whom I deeply respect.

Thanks. That got through to my muddled brain. When I get to the point where I actually try this, I will try to remember to post the results.

Jake

While not conclusive, since I didn’t burn, I just dropped an MPEG file on DVDA and copied the button twice. Then I set the in and out for the second and third button to two consecutive areas. So now I have a play all, play first half, play second half. I went into Prepare and Burn and checked the DVD size on disk and is said it would only take the space of the original MPEG2 file.

So if it’s not doing this when it burns, I would call that a bug! It seems the in and out points are just pointers by looking at the prepare menus. Like Jetdv said, the proof is in the burning but if it takes twice the disk space, then either the prepare menu is wrong or the VOB builder is wrong but something is wrong.

Perhaps this statement was made for an earlier version and its been fixed with the latest update?

~jr

as far as I can see, there is only 1 copy of the file on disk..cool hey? I actually went through all the steps I could think of to check: ie. "optimize dvd" over and over again...

The original avi (I wanted dvda to do the encoding just in case...) was estimated at 2.7 gigs. had intro vid, photos for backround menus, audio on the three menu pages, no motion on thumbnails or menu, and the total estimated size was under 3.7 gigs (i'm talking figures from memory so please don't take them as science..)

In the burn process, I had the "override selcted bitrate" UNCHECKED just in case...

The menu structure basically consists of main menu with "playall", and 2 submenu buttons leading to menus with the individual setions off the main video (set with in and out points).

And all is fine! So I'm very happy...It is actually good news considering the debate there has been about options on end actions and such...at least from my perspective anyway...Means you can have many more options than what I thought originally....

Anyway, thanks for all the help!

Cheers,

Paul.

PS: as I say, I THINK it did not duplicate the vid: haven't checked the file structure in the burnt dvd yet...

I asked this question for a different reason a long time ago, and my understanding from Sonic's response was that it would not create mulitple copies of your original material. My question was in regards to use of the menu button. I wanted the ability to return to the title menu if I watched the movie from the beginning menu, but would like to return to the chapter menu (root menu) if I navigated to a specific chapter from that menu, rather than being brought back to the beginning title menu. The answer I got from Sonic was that if you first created a title menu with a (for example) 'play all' button (plays the entire movie and when using the menu button on the remote after initiating viewing, it will take you back to the starting menu) and a chapter selection button. The chapter selection button would be a menu created from the same video asset, but all I had to do was change the in or out point (even just a smidge), and DVD-A would create a separate program chain for it. By doing this, it doesn't duplicate the original asset, and the 'new' title set points back to the chapter menu so that using the menu button on the remote brings you to that menu (chapter) and not the title menu (like you see with Hollywood dvd's). Creating multiple separate chapters with different in's and out's would be doing the same thing. My bet is that there are multiple program chains with PDB's new disc.

Jim

The best I could do was find this quote from Sonic back in late winter/early spring:

"The answer is actually a little more complex. Here it goes:

If you place a movie on the main menu, and create a scene selection sub-menu with the same identical movie, the ending of the movie will result in navigation going back to the main menu. If you delete the video from the main menu and leave only the scene selection sub-menu, navigation will return to the scene selection sub-menu. (The rule is that navigation always return to the first parent menu that contains all instances of the video you added.)

If you wish to change this behavior, you need to modify a propery of the video on the main menu, such as moving the in or out point. This will force DVD Architect to create a separate "program chain" for the two different instances of the video, each returning to their respective parent menu.
"

Jim

Thanks Jim for taking the time to detail the explanation and hunting down the official response from SoFo. Actually, given the number of questions/alternatives which come about with regards menu navigation/chapters/"scenes" I think it would be really worth while compiling a short list/explanation on "how to..." to be included in a FAQs here...What do you all think?

regards

Paul.

So I'm reading all the posts after I posted my last post and this issue is getting lost without the facts.

1. In/Out points are NOT chapter points.

2. Chapter points are chapter points.

3. In/Out points are In/Out points.

If you copy the menu item and set different in/out point you WILL NOT double up on the media.

If you insert a second media an set different in/out points you WILL double up on the media. But why on earth would you want to do something silly like that?

It's very very simple.

Lastly - although I have respect for people wanting to help people...I find it a little disheartening when I read "this is what you need to do...but I haven't tested it yet...so I really don't know...I guess Im just repeating what someone else said...but it WILL happen...but I haven't tested it yet."

Typically, unless I'm drunk, I don't say a thing is a thing unless it is a thing - or I have done it - or I can do it - or I can recreate it at will - and/or I can demonstrate it.

I just had this topic (screen shots and all) posted to my website for another board member last week. He followed it and is now a happy camper.

But, I took it down and removed the files...so bear with me until this weekend and I'll repost it. Saturday is my posting day (and bath day...but that is a different story!!)

I didn't interpret (granted I didn't read every post end to end) that people were necessarily confusing in and out points with chapter marks. You could however have an 'in' coincide with a particular chapter mark, and an 'out' for that segment to end just before the next(chapter mark). They technically are not one and the same, but in all intents and purposes behave that way. If you want a 'Play all' option that one can jump to 'chapter marks', then you would have to have set chapter marks with the video stream in question.

DVD Studio Pro 2.0 makes this process very easy, and would be nice to see in DVD-A. You can import one long video clip and set your chapter marks, and from that you can create any number of different 'playlists' with chapter(s) in any order just by dragging and dropping the chapter(s) onto a blank playlist. Once the list is created, you just assign a menu button to it. You can create up to 98 of these playlists. Very fast and slick and no duplication of assets.

Jim

DVD Studio Pro 2.0 sounds like an interesting program.

I am not sure of the limitations of DVDA in this regard, but you can easily create the exact same thing in DVDA with no duplicatino of assets.

When I say I am unsure of the limitations - I mean I don't know if you can only do this 98 times. But I'm sure you can do it as many times as there is space for it on the disc (or falls under the 1 gig limit for menu items).

All a person has to do is copy the menu item for the video and reset the in/out points (and/or chapter points).

Takes all of two seconds to do.

But thanks for the tip on DVD Studio Pro 2.0. I'm sure users of DVD Studio Pro 2.0 who frequently come to the DVDA forum will be glad to take note of what DVD Studio Pro 2.0 can do.

The limitation is due to the dvd spec limit of 99 titles. 98 playlists plus the original file = 99.

I was one of the first to own DVD-A (ReelDVD, DVDit PE, Impression Pro, DVDWS to name a few others), and most recently, DVD Studio Pro 2.0. I have had a chance to work with Spruce's Maestro in the past, which blows all of these apps out of the water. Unfortunately, Spruce was bought out by Apple and alas, Maestro will never see another upgrade. However, many of the software writers from Maestro have been busy working on the latest version of DVD-SP, so it's a bit like Maestro reincarnated. I was so impressed with the app, that I've gone (just a bit) to the dark side and bought a basic Mac and the program. I still edit and encode on a PC, but am switching at least for my more complicated discs, over to the Mac.

The playlists in DVD-SP are much more than just separate chapter duplications like you describe with DVD-A. A playlist can be one or any number of your chapters, played in any order you like. The playlist can then be launched from a menu button, or have a menu all of its own. For example, you could have a year's worth of family video all on one file. You could 'play all', or you could create playlist's like 'birthdays', 'holidays', 'vacations', or specific family members (like all chapters that contain content of a particular family member). This is a really cool feature, and the reason I mention it, is that I'd like to see something like this be available on the PC side of things without paying 10's of thousands (only Scenarist can do this now). It would greatly enhance DVD-A, because it would solve the problem of limited end functions that users complain of now. I'm not sure why the jab at me about DVD Studio Pro, but it's a public forum. I legitimately tried to offer some thoughts to PDB, nothing more and nothing less. I doubt many here have any experience with a Mac program--does it harm anyone to let others know what can be possible?

Jim

Jim,

Don't get me entirely too wrong - I think mentions of other applicatiosn and what they can do are fine and all. I just have been reading more and more about applications other than DVDA in the DVDA forum.

I think being able to set up play lists as mentioned is kind of neat - but I also think that it is overkill on DVDs and it's only worth it as a novalty.

I've been watching DVDS pretty much since DVDs first became commercial - and have yet to find this type of feature on any disc...or to have it necessary.

I think what gets me interested in reading posts in forums is when I can dive into and learn more about the application the forum is made up for . Saying that...I look for new and exciting stuff about DVDA that I haven't figured out yet.

Tba ks again for the info, though.

I think you underestimate the power of playlists, and they aren't so rare or esoteric as you suggest. In fact, they (or something like it) are used much more than you might think.

I could give many examples, but I'll just use one that many here harp on not having, and that is better control of end user functions and playing separate movie files in a row. Lets say you have four separate mpeg files, each with their own chapter marks. You can easily create a menu in either app that would allow the viewer to jump to each video. In DVD-SP, you can also set it up that the viewer can watch all four in succession. By using playlists, you can create an exact 'copy' of the orignal file, but define a different end action with each. In one instance, you would tell the clip to return to the title menu after finishing playing so the viewer could select another button/clip. In another playlist, you would define the end action to move onto the next clip and so on until the last clip which would point back to your 'play all' menu button. All of this would be done without duplicating assets. I've done discs with 4 compiled years of family video (each year it's own mpeg file), where I could create a playlist of birthday's across those four years of only one child. I know it's perhaps somewhat of a lame example, but my kids seem to enjoy watching themselves at times more than their siblings, whereas my wife and I like to watch all of them. For a wedding dvd, you could have play all, or just the 'groom' (including slideshows of still pics involving just the groom), the 'bride', 'reception', etc (again, all of them with their respective still photos as well).

On commercial dvd's, alternate endings, director's cuts and parental controlled playback are other examples of playlists.

I too like to see all the 'tricks' one can do with any particular piece of software, but most of the 'tricks' for DVD-A have been outlined at this forum by a number of super-users(which we all appreciate). There is a limit however as to how much one can push an application, and DVD-A could be so much more. I frequent several dvd forums representing all of the applications I own/use(looking for all the tricks I can get). For whatever reason, this forum tends to be very sensitive when anyone discusses another app. Most of the references to other apps are in the context of what we would like to see DVD-A offer. What is esoteric to one, might be another's 'must have'. I answered a post on an Encore forum about 'Encore vs Maestro--which is better'. I posted that Maestro beat Encore hands down from a pure authoring standpoint. Instead of getting chided for my answer, the Adobe rep that frequented the forum wanted to know my reasons why. After giving a list, he actually thanked me and wanted to know which I thought were the most important. It was refreshing to see that they (Adobe) are so keenly interested in what the users think (I hope it translates to more features). My answers were factual, not hyped, not a sales pitch, and not meant to belittle a product but to compare and contrast legitimately. Some know an app so well that they can do some pretty amazing stuff with 'limited resources'. It's just nice to be able to do some things without knowing the 'secret handshake' and a Swiss Army Knife to get it accomplished.


Jim