Poor image quality even with TMPEGenc

pede23 wrote on 2/11/2002, 3:25 AM
I'm used to creating slideshows using Roxio WinOnCd or Nero and after seeing
VV3 features I'm looking forward to moving to it. Anyway even if VV3 is so
powerful the final result is far from Nero image quality and this is
preventing me to step in it. The image is 'soft', almost out of focus, and
there is a lack of resolution.
I did a lot of search on this forum and it turned out that I'm not the only
one that noticed this, anyway it seems the use of TMPEGEnc fixed the
problem. Unfortunately this is not my case.
This is the procedure I follow:

- I've a film scanner and I scan my slides at max resolution (2400dpi)
- I import the jpegs on VV3 and add music (mp3 usually) and transition fx
(peel)
- I render the project as 720x576 PAL DV AVI and then I apply VirtualDub to
resize the 720x576 PAL DV AVI file (using Precise Bilinear filter) into a
352x288 PAL Indeo AVI file.
- Then I use TMPGEnc to convert the 352x288 PAL Indeo AVI file into a
352x288 PAL VCD compliant MPEG file.
- Finally I burn the result as VCD using Nero
- My aim is to watch the slideshow on TV (with PAL encoding)

The previews I've got from the intermediate steps (VV3, VirtualDub, TMPGEnc)
seems to be fine but of course, this is from PC monitor.

I got some improvement using the sharp filter in TMPGEnc but to disadvantage
of resolution.

1) Is there something wrong with my process or is VV3 not optimized for
still pictures?
2) When I want to burn the TMPEGEnc resulting file Nero complains that the
"stream is not VCD compliant". I tried both with and without Nero re
encoding but with the same result. Could a different burning sw (like
EasyCD) fix the poor image quality issue?

This is very frustrating since I really love this application.
Thanks.

Comments

FadeToBlack wrote on 2/11/2002, 4:22 AM
pede23 wrote on 2/11/2002, 6:41 AM
First of all, thanks for your reply.

I'm using such high scanning resolution since my main purpose is to store photo for future usage like printing. I actually saving them as TIF (your guess is right they are 15 to 25 meg each) and a jpeg copy for the slideshow.

I thought this was the right procedure since I understood from the "Forum" that TMPEGEnc is much better than the encoder which comes with VV3. I used VirtualDub to size down to 352x288 since this is the resolution VCD needs to have.
I would love to move to a higher resolution and since I don't have a DVD burner, SVCD will be my only option so far. I'll definitely try it.

Given that the problem is on the wrong procedure I use (glad to hear this since I like VV3) what is the best solution?

1) Stay stick to VV3 mpeg1/2 encoder.

2)Creating a 720x576 PAL DV AVI file from VV3 and then encode it using TMPEGEnc

In both cases since from www.vcdhelp.com comparison table:
- the video PAL resolution is: SVCD 480x576 , VCD 352x288
- the Still picture PAL resolution is: 704x576 for both

is it not necessary to re size before encoding in Mpeg1/2?

Is this the reason why Nero or WinOnCd quality is better? I mean since Nero creates a plain slide show (no transition or special effects) probably it is not encoded as video so it can take advantage of a higher resolution?


I really appreciate help on this.
Cheesehole wrote on 2/11/2002, 11:45 AM
>I'm using such high scanning resolution since my main purpose is to store photo for future usage like printing. I actually saving them as TIF (your guess is right they are 15 to 25 meg each) and a jpeg copy for the slideshow.

You should use a batch converter to create a set of images for your videos separate from your archival images. PNGs at 1600x1200 will give you room to pan and zoom on your photos, and maintain a small file size since PNGs are losslessly compressed. using high res images like the ones you described in VV is bad because you'll run out of RAM very quickly. unless they fixed that in VV3...
---------------------------------------

>Given that the problem is on the wrong procedure I use (glad to hear this since I like VV3) what is the best solution?

1) Stay stick to VV3 mpeg1/2 encoder.

You need to do your own testing. some people have better results from TMPGEnc and some people get better results from the Main Concept encoder that comes with VV3. try the VV3 one first since it is much easier... but you might want to download the latest Video Fatory demo and install it, so you get all the new updates for the VV3 MPEG encoder. you don't have to use the Demo, just install it.

>Is this the reason why Nero or WinOnCd quality is better? I mean since Nero creates a plain slide show (no transition or special effects) probably it is not encoded as video so it can take advantage of a higher resolution?

probably you are correct. but slide shows with panning/zooming are much more interesting. my DVD slideshows come out awesome. it takes a lot of experimentation and tweaking to make a file that looks good as MPEG-2. MPEG-2 is optimized for moving pictures, not stills. you'll run into jitter, motion artifacts (even on still photos), halo effects, etc. a lot of problems can be solved by using a median filter in your video track (photo track) at a very low setting. this will soften the image a bit so it encodes better.

- ben
kkolbo wrote on 2/11/2002, 12:07 PM
The number one problem I see here is far too many steps. Every step degrades the final output. The steps to JPEG compression and then later the introduction of the Indeo compression are no doubt killing you.

True VCD is not great quality, but I can get a better than VHS quality out of still images with VCD and do it all the time. It is high motion images or motion images with a lot of detail like a forest that are the problems with VCD.

Here is the process I would reccommend ...

Scan the slides to a BMP or other non-compressed format. Use a DPI that will give you the correct size for you final product. Around 352 x 288 is the final size you are shooting for.

Open a Vegas project and set the size to 352 x 288 non-interlaced, 25 fps. You can use the PAL VCD template. Do not start with a DV size project. Build your project.

Output the project to an AVI. The best is to use the default-uncompressed format if you have the available disc space. If not, you have to select the default template and then click the custom tab. From there you can choose your CODEC that want to use for output. Use as little compression as possible.

Use TMPGEnc to encode to MPEG for PAL VCD.

The next key point is in the burning of the VCD. I have found that your burner can make a BIG difference. If you do not have a choice of the burner you use then burn the VCD at a slower speed than it's maximum for better quality.

I hope this helps.