Pop Screen placement for . . .

doctorfish wrote on 5/23/2002, 10:41 PM
recording more than one voice at once. What I mean is this:

I record a lot of dialog for language text books and such and I often
place just one mic between the talent (one person a little to the left
and the other a little to the right) with no pop screen as nothing
is going directly into the mic. Still we've been getting some plosives and lip
smacks and tongue swirls and the like that take time to edit out.

Now, I'm thinking I'll try a pop screen next time, but I only have one.
Would it do to still place it directly in front of the mic?
Get another pop screen and place one to each side?
Use two mics?

I'm curious to see how other people record dialog.
If it helps, the mic I'm using is a Rode NT 1000, cardioid polar pattern

Thanks.

Dave

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 5/23/2002, 10:54 PM
There's 2 ways to handle this. One is to get 2 pop screens for each side of the mic, if you're using only one microphone. I'm also assuming you have the mic in either bi-directional pickup or omni.

Here's another alternative to get rid of the pop screen. This works best if you're using a cardiode or hyper-cardiode pick up pattern, but will work with bi-directional or omni as well. Position the microphone slightly above the persons mouth, about forehead height. Now aim the microphone down towards their mouth. You have to instruct them to not look up at the microphone when they speak. Plosives happen because, a large burst of air hits directly on the diaphram of the microphone. Plosives are most prevelant with words that start with the letter "P". Now if the mic is pointed down at their mouth, you will still get good direct levels, but the burst of air coming from the "P" words will travel under the diaphram of the microphone, therefore elliminating the problems you're currently dealing with.

Rednroll
Rednroll wrote on 5/23/2002, 11:04 PM
oops, I just reread your message and you mentioned the rode mic was "cardiode". A single Cardiode is usually not a good option for using a single mic for 2 people. The only way this would work is to have one person at 90 degrees off axis and the other at 270 degrees. This way your gain on the microphone will be the same for each voice person. At these 2 locations the level is usually down -6dB for each person compared to 0 degrees on axis. This is better than having 1 person at 0 degrees and the other at 180 degrees, which would give you a 20 to 30 dB level difference.
doctorfish wrote on 5/24/2002, 2:18 AM
Thanks for the info.

I must apologize though.

It seems my post wasn't as clear about mic placement as it should have been.

I had the mic centered. Both people were on the same side of the mic as
it's only cardioid. One person was maybe 45 degress off axis and the other
about 315. At the time this seemed better than 90 and 270, but sometimes
one person would move in a little more toward the center creating volume
differences and no amount of direction from me seemed to correct this.
(I should have gotten some rope.)

I would like multi-pattern mic or another NT 1000, but till then
maybe I'll try 90 and 270 next time and see how that comes out.

Dave
VU-1 wrote on 5/24/2002, 11:27 AM
2 mics, each with it's own pop filter is optimal.

I'm curious to know how close to the mic you are able to get both of your voice talents to where they are still comfortable enough without shifting around. Seems to me that 2 people couldn't get close enough to cause big problems with plosives. If you move them to the 90/270 position, I doubt you will have much problem with plosives since the diaphragm will be pointed to the side.

One other option is to just get another filter, one for each talent.

JL
OTR
VU-1 wrote on 5/24/2002, 11:30 AM
>>Cardiode<<

Hey, Red.....

......would this be like an old clunker that the Reverse gear has gone out on? (Car-diode)
Rednroll wrote on 5/24/2002, 4:59 PM
lol....Buckweat tay...."I been drivin my car toe long, but now 'MY CAR DIE ODE', and I drive no moe."

Damn, you guys know I can't spell. Can someone in Sonic Foundry put a spell checker in these forums for me? Notice I spelled "90" and "270" correctly? Told you I was good with numbers...lol!!
Rednroll wrote on 5/24/2002, 5:17 PM
oh...and also in regards to the original question. Since you're positioning the 2 people at 45 and 315, I can picture this situation very well. Whoever's turn it is to speak always leans forward to get closer to the mic, and then if they have to simultaneously talk they don't get as close because they'll bump heads, right? Well, instruct them to keep their positions, or get 2 cheap radio shack mics and don't turn them on......had to do this once, for a singer that loved the hand held type of mic to perform, while the mic recording him was stationary placed behind that one. So even after you instruct them to not lean towards the mic, they probably will do so out of habbit and prefer the sound of the close mic in their headphones. That's when you go in the recording booth and give them a swift jab to the gut.....that will knock the wind right out of them, therefore they won't have enough breath left in them to create any plosives. Problem solved!!! continue recording!!!

Oh, and also with them placed at 45 and 315, one "pop" sceen will be enough as long as it's positioned 3-5 inches infront of the mic. I prefer the more tactful punch to the gut method though, always reminds them who's in charge.

:-)

red
doctorfish wrote on 5/24/2002, 7:42 PM
I like the jab to the gut idea.
If I leave the tape rolling (or rather the hard drive)
I could get a good sound effect out of it.:)


Rednroll, you are correct. I had to correct levels after the
fact as they wouldn't stop leaning toward the mic.
I wish they had bumped heads. I think placing them at
"ninety" and "two hundred seventy"
will solve that problem until
I can get another mic.

Thanks for the advice.

Dave



VU-1 wrote on 5/25/2002, 12:14 AM
>>I think placing them at "ninety" and "two hundred seventy" will solve that problem until I can get another mic.<<

If you do this, one pop filter won't be enough - if you even need one at all then.

Keep in mind that with this positioning, there will be a reduction in hi-end captured by the mic since they will each be 90 deg. off axis. You will likely lose some presence in the voices. Also, you might ought to position the mic so that the diaphragm faces an absorbent surface so you don't pick up any phantom voices floating around in the room.

JL
OTR
doctorfish wrote on 5/26/2002, 7:01 AM
JL,

Yes, I've thought about that. I may nonetheless give 90/270 a go
and see what happens. We've recorded good sound at 45/315 but had to do what seemed
like a lot of editing to it. I wasn't sure how much people had to edit their
voiceover and spoken word stuff. I think the main problem might actually
be one of the female voices we use. There's a lot of swirl in her tongue,
a little mucus like. Plus, her voice is quieter than the male voice I mostly
use, and this contributes to the leaning tendency.

Here's the thing. Yesterday, I spoke to the producer who we're making this
tape for, and he said the sound was really good, so maybe my ears have become
overly sensitive to this.

Thanks for the tips. I'll keep experimenting until I have enough saved for
another mic.

Dave