Praise and Problem - V-4

ricklaut wrote on 4/12/2003, 12:53 PM

First, I want to thank SF for this great product. I've been editing on Cinestream for a couple of years and this has cut my editing time down by about 75%. Fantastic product!

However.... I have a problem that I'm hoping the list (of SoFo) can help me with. I tried the folks over at the Yahoo dv-editors list - as hard as they tried, nobody was able to help. Sorry if this gets long, but I want to get all of the background in here:

Realtime preview through firewire is not working correctly. The external display is stuttering (like dropped frames). Capture and print to video work fine - only from the timeline. This occurs even with individual AVI's with NO effects (for example - capture single AVI through V-4; put on timeline = dropped frame playback on external monitor). As I look at the timecode on the Video Preview window, it doesn't run as smoothly as the timecode at the top left of the timeline window (appears to verify that frames are dropping?)

Hardware / environment: P-4, 2.26 gig, 512MB ram, XP Home, separate media drive (defragmented - tests at over 20MB/S), background processes cut to a minimum (task bar items, created separate provile with USB disconnected, networking shut off, etc), firewire on the board (can't remember the brand name of the board, but it's a VPR Matrix computer (Best Buy house brand).

Within the program, I've tried changing through all of the DV related settings at the project level (within the NTSC DV preset) and the video tab of "preferences". I've tried the preview quality settings - all produce the same result. Using "Best (Auto)", I get good playback on the computer monitor unless the effects are really heavy - but still jerky quality through DV.

There is another user at dv-editors that is having the same problem; hope it can be fixed and we're just missing something simple!

One more problem - on occasion, V-4 is locking up on me as I'm editing (have to force close the program). At least it autosaves and can recover most of the project. I haven't been able to narrow down what may I may be doing at the time that triggers this - seems random. Is this a common problem with other users (most that I've talked to praise it's stability).

Sorry for the length, but thanks for the help!!

Rick

Comments

zcus wrote on 4/12/2003, 2:26 PM

Did you update to Vegas 4b - they did some tweaks to fix that studder through firewire.

ricklaut wrote on 4/12/2003, 3:14 PM

Yes - I've got 4.0b (build 174).

Rick

BillyBoy wrote on 4/12/2003, 4:14 PM

Check under Dynamic RAM preview in Vega's help system. This will give you a small sample of real time preview.

Aside from that, the term "real time" is more a buzz word. If you have virgin DM media you import from a digital camera it should play back on a firewire connected external monitor at its actual frame rate. However, once you start the editing process, adding tracks, effects, filters, then the frame rate will drop proportionally to how complex the project gets. This can be limited somewhat by dropping the preview quailty (controls above the preview window) and of course is also very much dependant on your CPU's raw horsepower. I have a medium speed CPU that runs at 1.6 Ghz and I average a frame rate from my external monitor around 16 frames a second for a typical project, if there is such a thing.

ricklaut wrote on 4/12/2003, 4:43 PM

Thanks - the problem, though, is that even with a native file (captured in V-4) and no editing, it does not play back in real time (media / project frame rate). I've tried all of the available preview settings - no luck.

I use RAM previews on occasion - they work relatively well (but I noticed this morning that even this had some stutters - but this was a pretty complex project (5 lines of composited video / graphics) so I didn't think that much of it.

Rick

dcrandall wrote on 4/12/2003, 5:58 PM

Windows XP will automatically set-up a 1394 network connection. I found disabling this option has helped smooth out my external monitor playbacks.

ricklaut wrote on 4/12/2003, 6:55 PM

I just disabled 1394 networking; no luck. I also tried another firewire card - no luck with that either. AArrggh.

RIck

zcus wrote on 4/12/2003, 7:20 PM

What chipset are you using? VIA? Sis? Intel?

BillyBoy wrote on 4/12/2003, 7:31 PM

Assuming your firewire card is or part of the problem, ??? keep in mind that Vegas demands a 100% OHCI compliant 1394 card. The rub is most cards don't say if they are or not in their ads. The good news is most are. I use a cheap SIIG card and it works fine.

http://www.siig.com/

Just re read your original post. If you're using a no name card who knows what standard if any it supports.

ricklaut wrote on 4/12/2003, 8:56 PM

I researched it and the motherboard is an Intel. Both firewire cards that I've tried are OCHI compliant (one is on the board and the other is a PCI card). I've successfully used both of these cards with other editing apps; capture and print to video work fine with V-4.

I thought it might be the fireware card also - but I think I've ruled that out now.

Rick

mountainman wrote on 4/12/2003, 11:30 PM

ricklaut, Spot helped me correct my playback prob. sounds just like yours. Any time my computer monitor playback window is smaller than 320 x playback is jerky. Every thing else is fine. As soon as I resize computer monitor to at least320x, play back on ext monitor is fine.
John M

david-ruby wrote on 4/12/2003, 11:56 PM

I actually have the same prob. with my p4 2.25hz intel chipset.
Everything seemed fine the first couple o days with no change to rig. Now it stutters abit on playback. Same as yours. I've have had files one day play at normal speed. The next? Stutter out of sync(narration and talking head) on an expternal monitor.
I will be opened ear on this.

david-ruby wrote on 4/14/2003, 10:07 AM

Are you using asio drivers? Try using the windows drivers like in vegas 3 instead.
Also what soundcard are you using? Echo?
See if this clears up things.Thanx.
DR

ricklaut wrote on 4/18/2003, 5:48 PM

I've tried almost everything in this thread to no avail. I searched and saw lots of other posts with similar problems - hopefully SoFo will find an answer for this one.

The one thing I haven't tried is reinstalling V-4.0b completely from scratch (when I purchased, I applied 4.0b over the demo).

Thanks to all of you that have given suggestions - keep them coming if you have more!

Rick

ricklaut wrote on 4/19/2003, 9:29 PM

I'm glad I said "almost" everything.... I remembered that someone suggested uninstalling and reinstalling V-4. It Worked!!!! - No more glitchy playback on straight clips.

For SoFo: I originally had the demo (I got it right before 4.0b came out) and had installed 4.0b over it. One thing that I notice that is different is the "Frame Recompressed" message - now this message only appears in the preview window when the cursor is traveling through something that is composited. The message goes away when it is playing straight .avi video. Before, this "Frame Recompressed" message was ALWAYS on (even on unaltered .avi's) - and playback to the external monitor was dropping frames.

Hope that helps some of you with the same problem.....

Rick

SonyDennis wrote on 4/20/2003, 10:42 PM

Before, this "Frame Recompressed" message was ALWAYS on (even on unaltered .avi's) - and playback to the external monitor was dropping frames.

Are you sure you didn't have the Scopes window open? That will force frames to be recompressed so that it can take readings. Also, any FX, transitions, compositing, opacity, fade-to-color, crossfades, etc., will cause recompression.

///d@

ricklaut wrote on 4/21/2003, 9:02 AM

Yes - I'm positive. I can understand composited areas, etc - but I couldn't get even straight freshly captured video (one track, no cuts) to play right. Reinstalling it fixed it.

I just checked performance with the scopes window open - works fine with no dropped frames / stutter on unaltered video.

Rick

Jsnkc wrote on 4/21/2003, 9:49 AM

I actually have a similar problem, when I try to do a preview through my camera into a Television monitor the video cuts out all the time, it starts to play fine then it will just cut out completley, then come back for a few seconds, then cut out again.