Print to Tape with Timecode Question.

Siddho wrote on 4/13/2004, 11:34 PM
Hi,

Maybe my question has already been answered somewhere, but I couldnt find the answer myself and would appreciate any help.

I want to output my timeline to tape and I want the Timecode to print along with it on to tape. What I mean is: My program starts with timecode: 00.00.00.00, but before the actual program start there are 2 minutes of colour bars, leaders, etc. They start at 09.58.00.00. This is standard practice for tapes prepared for TV output.
Now when I output to tape with Vegas, whatever I do the deck itself determines the start Timecode and not Vegas, ie: my Timecode is not print on to tape alongside my project.

Is a cure known for this problem?
Is Vegas capable of outputting timecode to tape?
(I have heard that Avid Xpress Pro can do this.)

Again, any words of wisdom will be gratelly appreciated.

Siddho

Comments

PeterWright wrote on 4/14/2004, 12:30 AM
There is a Time Code FX. Applying this in different ways produces different results. There are also choices of Time/frames , SMPTE display etc.

Adding it to a clip in the Media Pool will display the original camera timecode.

Applying it to the preview window will display Time line time code.

I think JohnMeyer has a script which allows you to use this feature to count up or down to or from a chosen point ....

edit - the script is at the Sundance Media site:
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/help/kb/kb_login.asp?s=1&url=kb_download.asp?id%3D370
farss wrote on 4/14/2004, 1:00 AM
I suspect the only way you'll manage to do this is to prestripe the tape with TC. In the VCR menu you should be able to set the starting TC value and then just put it into record for a few minutes.

Now the tricky thing is you have to get the tape to the precise position where you want to start the recording, you cannot specify it in Vegas. In your case its 9:58:00:00 but you may also need to factor in the pre roll offset.

You're right Avids eat this kind of thing, damn well want to in a broadcast environment. But don't knock Vegas because it doesn't. Firstly DV doesn't really support true time code, lots of people are going to howl at me over that statement but it plain doesn't. DVCAM does. Only way to really control a deck properly with TC is through machine control, i.e. RS422 or (shudder) LANC.
So to be able to do that not only do you need the software and the RS422 port on the computer but also a deck with RS422 control and they are usually outside the price range of most Vegas users. In other words SoFo could have spent a lot of maney adding a feature very few of us would have used..
For those that do need it it isn't that expensive to take it to a pro dub house and get them to do it, after all most broadcast people want the material on Digi Betacam or SP anyway.
I'd also add that most stations don't give a rats about the TC anyway. They dub the program and set the starting TC to their standard, to the best of my knowledge only the BBC and ABC start program TC at 10:00:00;00, the rest set it to 0. Another reason it's less of an issue these days is more and more stations go to air of HD servers where TC is meaningless. I know it's nice to do it like you know what you're doing but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. What I would loose sleep over is making certain your levels are all legal!
Siddho wrote on 4/14/2004, 1:39 AM
Hi farss,
Thanks a lot for you reply.
That is what I was going to do anyway: get the dub house to transfer to Digibeta and set the Timecode right. They want a little extra for it and I thought that there might be a way for me to avoid that cost. But alass...
Thanks again.
Siddho
farss wrote on 4/14/2004, 6:42 AM
Well heres' the thing. It's quite tricky to go from DV to SP and preserve the 'timecode' on the DV tape. If you either go from the DV tape via firewire into a bridge and then component into the SP machine the 'timecode' is lost. The way we do it is to go from firewire to SDI and then into a high end SP machine.
Real TC is recorded as a separate analogue track on the tape, the VCRs have separate TC in/out ports so to feed TC into a SP VCR without going in SDI then you'd need some box that decodes the 'TC' off the DV and converts it into a real TC audio isgnal to go into the TC in on the VCR. As far as i know there's no such box although I haven't looked at the hi end Canopus or Laird boxes, maybe they can do it but having the Miranda DV bridge and a BVW 75 we're able to do it anyway.

As I said though most likely the TV station will regen the TC to their own standards anyways.
SonyEPM wrote on 4/14/2004, 7:22 AM
"Is Vegas capable of outputting timecode to tape?" No

"Is a cure known for this problem?" Yes- if your deck has a make TC function (just about all decks have this). Set the deck to write your desired timecode value when it starts recording- just subtract whatever bars/black time you are using in Vegas from the desired pgm start.
farss wrote on 4/14/2004, 7:33 AM
Good idea, why didn't I think of that!
Still doesn't get around the problem of preserving TC when it gets dubbed, but that's not a Vegas problem.