Printing to Tape (Analog no less)

jkb242 wrote on 12/16/2003, 9:04 AM
OK, there are some folks who have not moved up to DVD land and sitll have the VCR's which are available now brand new for what the repair technician used to charge just to estimate repairs to the fine old beast we all once had.

I have an ATI all in Wonder 7500 card which has the ATI special adaptors that are used at the output and inputs to the card to interface to the rest of the world. This model does not have the firewire interface, only S video and composite video in and out along with audio. of course.

I can't seem to get Vegas print to tape mode to dump video to the output port of the card. I can record audio of the edited clip that I did in Vegas but not the video. This may be more of an issue with the card than Vegas but the program is supposed to support analog print to tape (non firewire interface)

Has anyone done this with this card or can someone offer some suggestions as to why I cannot get the video to record? The audio to the VCR deck is derrived from the sound card for physical connections when playing the AVI rendered clip. The video must be routed through the ATI card which is where I am suspecting most of this trouble to lle. This is a relatively new card and I guess I have not attempted to use the video composite out since I have had the card.

ATI is no help, they discontinue and introduce new cards as often as the terroist attack and provide feed back to questions about as often as Osama shaves. Any assistance from this great group of folks is appreciated.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 12/16/2003, 9:21 AM
If you've got Windows Media Player 9 and a relatively fast (say, 1GHz or better) processor, i'd suggest rendering to DV .avi, then playing this .avi file in Media Player in full screen mode. Set the computer's display properties to 800x600 and clone the output to the composite out. This will play the file through the composite out to the VCR.

If you're still on Media Player 8 or using a slower processor then render to MPEG-2 at 640x480 (not 720x480) with a relatively high bitrate, maybe 5Mbps or so. Then play this file as described above. The problem with Media Player 8 is that it doesn't seem to properly handle the 0.909 pixel aspect ratio of 720x480 files and you end up with short & fat people and black bars at the top and bottom of the screen.
jkb242 wrote on 12/16/2003, 11:44 AM
Chienworks,

Thanks for the nice input although your response indicates that Vegas does not really support analog tape dumps. How disappointing. I wonder if this is everyone eles's experience?
jkb242 wrote on 12/16/2003, 12:08 PM
There seems to be some disconnect between video playing on the PC and routing it to the video output port with any player. Maybe this is particular to ny setup but I am supposed to be able to do this.

When I view an AVI player screen with a file being played in full screen mode, the video sent to the VCR is a replica of what is on the PC except that there is no video being shown in the player window video sent to the VCR (while monitoring that input) but the file plays on the PC.

I would sure like to know a fix to this as I am going to need to do this again later. I did note your comments to another user about not checking enable DV device in preferences. It was already unchecked for me in my setup.

Are you saying that Windows Media player 9 will fix this problem? I hate loading their stuff as it takes control of all file associations and to fix, it seems that you just have to un-install it but I will do this if this will allow me to dump to analog tape.

Other suggestions would be appreciated for you or anyone who has encountered this limiting problem before.

Much thanks for all input.
jetdv wrote on 12/16/2003, 12:27 PM
Vegas outputs via firewire. Do you have a camera that has firewire? If yes, buy a cheap firewire card and use the camera to convert to the VHS decks. If not, spend the money and buy a convertor (such as the Canopus ADVC-100) and a firewire card.

If you insist on outputting through your card, you will have to render the project and output from some other program such as mentioned by Chienworks.
metrazol wrote on 12/16/2003, 1:16 PM
Yep, using the card isn't necessarily the best way to do this. I would recommend following jetdv's advice and using your camera as the converter. It should have analogue outs, so you're set. Firewire cards are unbelievably cheap and easy to install in WinXP (if you have SP-1, if you don't...argh...).

Buying an analogue video device also isn't a bad idea. I use a ADSTech Instant DVD 2.0 and it is great for outputting to VCR's or inicoding mpeg-2 video for DVD's. They aren't expensive, and they come in USB, USB2.0, and firewire models. They're fast, they're cheap(ish) and they work. They even come with not too shabby DVD burning software and .iso creator, which is quite handy when you want to burn multiple DVD's.
jkb242 wrote on 12/16/2003, 5:09 PM
Jetdv,

I do not have a camcorder that has a digial or firewire interface. I do have a firewire card to which my firewire drive is connected. If Vegas output for print to tape jobs is via firewire, but I do not have a firewire port on the ATI card, how can vegas use the firewire card currently installed? I took a look at the canopus product (thanks for the info) but with no firewire port on the video card, I do not see how this device can help me as all video still must pass through the vidoe card to get to the canopus device. I do not think Vegas can use my firewire card (even with vacant ports) to drive the canopus or any convertor. Can you offer any other suggestions or did I miss something in how I am reading your reply?

Thanks for the informaiton and please let me hear from you concering my questions.

jkb242 wrote on 12/16/2003, 5:11 PM
Metrazol,

can you offer some suggestion regardling my reply to jetdv?
J_Mac wrote on 12/16/2003, 6:15 PM
jkb242, I'm sure you cannot do what you are describing in Vegas. If you do not want to use WMP then use the file player to play the AVI that comes with the ATI Multi Media Center. What are you using to connect to your VCR? Did yours come with a manual. V4 has nothing to do with analogue playback as described above. For the ATI card you must use the combinrd s-video, composite and audio cable supplied with the card, play the AVI in ATI file player and that should do the trick. See page 90 and 17 in the manual. Also set to TV out, in TV control panel under video. Good Luck John
Chienworks wrote on 12/16/2003, 7:13 PM
jkb242, Vegas can output the DV signal through any firewire port. You don't have to have a firewire port on the video card. The port you are currently using for the hard drive will work perfectly fine for video out. Hopefully you have more than one port so that you can have both the drive and an external firewire DV -> analog converter connected at the same time. If you only have one port, then you should be able to connect the external converter to the daisy-chain port on the hard drive.
Ohm wrote on 12/16/2003, 7:50 PM
I used to use ATI 7500 all-in-wonder (use ATI 8500DV now) and had the same problem you describe. The solution came from Microsoft.

If you haven't tried this, go to microsoft.com and check for updates concerning "ATI compatibility updates for windows". You can use their update checker.

It worked for me, hope it works for you.

Caruso wrote on 12/17/2003, 1:56 AM
jkb242:

Me thinks you are so focused on your video card that you aren't comprehending the replies offered to you thus far.

While Vegas can deal with input from many sources and many file types, it outputs Digital Video through the firewire port. The video card doesn't come into play. To take fullest advantage of Vegas' best output, you need to be able to route the output signal from your firewire card to your destination device.

My advice - instead of researching the analog output angle (and investing in equipment to enable that capability), redirect your energy and re$ources so that you can grab the signal at your firewire port.

An inexpensive Sony DV cam would work to convert/pass the DV signal from your firewire port to your VHS deck (and give you another DV recording, input, output source) - and the input to your analog video destination deck will be much better than any analog work-around as a result.

It's obvious from your assumption that there must be some "fix" to enable analog print to tape that you've overlooked one of Vegas' basic design features. You probably jumped right in capturing, editing, etc., without spending a lot of time in the manual - understandable, but Vegas' print to tape is DV via firewire. Anyother work around is a compromise.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

Caruso
impact wrote on 12/18/2003, 6:11 AM
Caruso, I am doing exactly what you are recommending. I'm going out of my laptop through the DV out into a Sony DV camcorder. Then out of the cam and into a VHS deck. Things look and sound great through most of the rendered project, however there are "jumps" or "stutters" that occur occasionally in both audio and video. What is happening??
sek0910 wrote on 12/18/2003, 6:49 AM
I purchased an inexpensive device at Micro Center from a company called Grandtec that converts the monitor signal output (a passthrough) to Composite and/or S video nd/or Y.cb.cr. They have a number of devices ranging from $49.00 to about $159. The $79 one I bought had on-screen menu that controlled color/brightness/contrast/ V and H size and position. I then use Media Player or my ATI Multimedia Center full screen. This device, unlike the ATI composite output, fills up the entire TV screen without the noticeable black bars at the bottom and top that my ATI card produced.
jetdv wrote on 12/18/2003, 7:04 AM
My guess would be a slow hard drive taking too long to find the next bit of information.
jkb242 wrote on 12/18/2003, 8:51 PM
I think you are correct. Thanks for the comments they are very helpful.

Caruso wrote on 12/19/2003, 1:29 AM
Impact:

Something is interrupting the video stream. Either your system is too slow (processor, etc), it could be a slow hard drive, I suppose - but doubt that - if your drives are 5400 rpm or above, you should be ok.

The other possiblity is that some other software is intermittently making demands on your system resources in the background.

Those are the only reasons I can think of for glitches during PTT.

This is probably a dumb question, but you are printing to tape - using either vidcap or print to tape from timeline, yes? You aren't trying to record playback of the timeline preview - right?

Vegas is very stable and very dependable at printing to tape as long as one of the above problem conditions is not present.

Hope this helps.

Caruso