Problem rendering HDV to DVD

Tony_G wrote on 8/19/2009, 2:07 PM

I must be missing something.

When I try to render a HDV 1080-60i video to send to DVD Architect to create a standard DVD video, the final results are not very good.

I’m selecting MainConcept MPEG-2 and using the DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream template.

However, when I render using the HDV 1080-60i template, and then let DVD Architect render the video to DVD it looks as it should. Of course this takes much longer.

I’m currently using Vegas Pro 9.0 and DVD Architect Pro 5.0. I had the same results using Vegas 8.

Am I just missing something obvious?

Thanks,
Tony

Comments

Laurence wrote on 8/19/2009, 7:35 PM

Make sure that the "select deinterlace method" tab is checked if you are rendering to the widescreen SD 60i preset.

edit: I should have said "checked" instead of "unchecked". It is corrected now.

ScorpioProd wrote on 8/19/2009, 8:25 PM

But Laurence, the poster is going from HD 60i to SD 60i, so for interlaced to interlaced with the downconversion happening, it's my understanding you must have the deinterlace setting set for blend or interpolate.

While if it was say HD 30p going to SD 30p, you would have the deinterlace setting set to none.

Isn't this correct?

John_Cline wrote on 8/19/2009, 10:37 PM

If you are rendering from 1080i HDV to widescreen 480i SD, then you absolutely DO want to select a deinterlace method. Interpolate would be a good choice.

Laurence wrote on 8/20/2009, 5:12 AM

Think of the "select deinterlace method" tab as a dual function tab where the second function is "separate fields before resize, then fold fields back into resized interlaced image".

When you are going from HDV 60i to SD 60i, the "select deinterlace method" tab needs to be checked so that Vegas knows to split the video into even and odd frames before resizing. Which method you select doesn't matter in this instance since no actual deinterlace is going to happen. What you want is for Vegas to split the video into even and odd fields, resize these fields separately, then fold the two fields back into the new resized SD 60 image. For some reason I've never quite been able to figure out, Vegas uses the "select deinterlace method tab" to determine the resize method as well. This is the source of the vast majority of resize issues. People who want to downrez interlaced video want the resized video to be interlaced as well, so they just assume that turning off the "select deinterlace method" is a good idea since they don't want to deinterlace. It makes sense but it is incorrect.

Laurence wrote on 8/20/2009, 5:16 AM

John_Cline wrote on 8/20/2009, 8:34 AM

I haven't noticed that the deinterlace button determines the resize method. That's what the render quality selection does.

bsuratt wrote on 8/20/2009, 8:56 AM

I do a lot of high motion video. I have experienced visible motion blur and artifacting on horizontal lines, (which are not visible in source material), when downconverting HDV to SD. I have experimented a lot with the settings and have never come up with a solution that produces an equal picture quality than when I print HDV back to tape and then recapture letting my Sony M15 deck downrez to SD avi. Then render in Vegas and the PQ is much better. I suspect it's a matter that either Vegas or the Mainconcept encoder just isn't that good in that respect. Tried CC and TMPeng with no better luck, (which sort of points back to Vegas!).

GregFlowers wrote on 8/20/2009, 9:19 AM

Make sure you set you render quality to "Best". Leaving it set at "Good" will leave the video looking soft and lower quality. I made this mistake several times before fixing it. Always render at "Best" if you are changing resolutions, upscaling or downscaling.

Laurence wrote on 8/20/2009, 9:34 AM

I haven't noticed that the deinterlace button determines the resize method. That's what the render quality selection does.

The render quality selection determines the algorithm used for resizing. The "select deinterlace method does two things: it selects whether or not you are going to interlace, and it also determines whether or not the image is going to be resized in a way appropriate for interlaced footage (separate even odd fields / resize fields separately / refold into interlaced image at new size) or in a way that is appropriate for progressive footage (regular resize).

Tony_G wrote on 8/20/2009, 3:54 PM

Thank you so much for your help. I hate to show my ignorance, but I can’t find the “select deinterlace method” option. I’m trying the render quality set to “Best” to see if that will help.
Tony

Laurence wrote on 8/20/2009, 3:54 PM

It's in the project properties.

GS1966 wrote on 8/21/2009, 8:35 AM

Hi, Tony, try to make so:
Create new project in Vegas Pro 9 - "NTSC IMX Widescreen (720x486; 29,970 fps)"
Attention: "Deinterlace method" on "Video" Tab in "Project Properties" choose "Blend fields" or "Interpolate fields". Open and editing your 1080-60i video in this project settings:

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/61982718.jpg/

For render for DVD Architect use two templates - "DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream" for rendering your video, "Dolby Digital AC-3" for audio.
On "Video" Tab in dialog "Custom Template - MainConcept MPEG-2" choose "Field order - Upper field first" (It is important!):

http://img91.imageshack.us/i/50933081.jpg/

Tony_G wrote on 8/21/2009, 5:26 PM

Thank you! It looks like I needed to set the Field order to Upper filed first to make the difference I was looking for. Now I can’t tell the difference between the clip I rendered from Vegas set to DVD Architect NTSC widescreen template, and the one that I rendered using the HDV 1080-60i template and let Architect render it. This will save me a lot of time.

Thank you again every one for your help.
Tony