PROBLEM Rendering to MPEG-1

TVeith wrote on 5/24/2002, 11:47 AM
Here's a problem that has been driving me totally nuts.

Here's what I do: Create the video with Vegas Video 3.0a and render it as MPEG-1 (standard NTSC VCD template). I then use Ulead DVD Movie Factory to burn the MPEG file to VCD. The movie plays in my DVD player but the audio and video SKIP constantly!!! ARGH!

I have tried several work arounds that work but take much more time.

1) I render the video with Vegas Video in AVI format (which can be a problem if the file size goes over 2GB), then render the resulting AVI file to MPEG-1 using TMPGenc. I then pull the resulting MPG file into Ulead DVD Movie Factory and burn the VCD. Works PERFECTLY on my DVD player without picture/audio skipping!

2) I render the video with Vegas Video into MPEG-2 format, I then render the MPEG-2 file into MPEG-1 using TMPGenc. Again, I burn this to VCD using Ulead DVD Movie Factory - again, a PERFECT copy that works 100% in my DVD player without picture/audio skipping.

Has anybody else had this problem? Obviously, I would like to be able to render my video directly through Vegas Video using the included MainConcept MPEG encoders to save precious time. Are there some settings I should be playing around with when I encode using the MainConcept MPEG encoders? Are there other encoders that I can plug-in to Vegas Video that would work better? I am ready to throw Vegas Video out the window, but God help me, I love the editing capabilities! :)

If anybody can help me sort this out, please reply here or email me directy at t_veith@hotmail.com.

Thanks

TVeith

Comments

BillyBoy wrote on 5/24/2002, 6:09 PM
About your workarounds....this has absolutley nothing to do with your skip problem but why render twice? Instead of first rendering in MPEG-2 then doing it over to MPEG-1 (ouch!) if you are going to make VCD's start at MPEG-1. What you're doing by re encoding already highly compressed material is further reducing the quality, probably a lot.

You'd be better off making SVCD's straight from Vegas and using the MC MPEG-2 encoder. I do and it makes great SVCD. No real need to go out to TMPGenc. If you insist on doing it anyway then export originally from Vegas as AVI, then make either your VCD or SVCD in TMPGene and burn with Ulead.

The kind of skipping you describe could be either your DVD player don't like the media (try a different brand, also try CD-RW if you've been using CD-R) and stick with recommended bitrates. If you go out of the box a lot of DVD players will skip if they can play anything at all.
TVeith wrote on 5/24/2002, 6:21 PM
Thanks for your reply! :)

Again, the reason I render twice is because I really have no choice. Because the MPEG-1 from Vegas Video does not convert properly when burned to VCD (skipping in DVD player), it would really not make a difference how I render the video, whether MPEG-1, MPEG=2, or AVI. The problem with rendering in AVI is the 2GB file maximum, that is why I have had to render in MPEG-2, to avoid the large file size. Also, by rendering in MPEG-2 I am outputting in high quality video which should allow in a better "final" render using TMPGenc. Does this make sense?

Thanks for your suggestion re: using SVCD, but I'd rather stick with VCD because it can hold more video...i'm not too concerned about the overal quality as long as the video is not too bogged down in artifacts.

I really don't think there is a problem with my DVD player and CD-R, I have burned VCD with more than 5 different brands of CD-R and my Toshiba player has played them all flawlessly. As I said, the only time it doesn't play a VCD properly is when I render the video with Vegas Video's MainConcept MPEG-1 codec and burn the resulting file to VCD using DVD Movie Factory. If I render the MPEG with any other program, such as TMPGenc or Ulead Media Studio, the VCD works perfectly. I have no choice but to suspect a problem with the MainConcept MPEG-1 codec for encoding.

Thanks again

TVeith
BillyBoy wrote on 5/24/2002, 9:26 PM
The problem with rendering to MPEG-2 then cutting it down to MPEG-1 is the source file whatever format it starts out as in effect gets compressed twice which will really hurt quality because you're compressing a file that's already been compressed. So it becomes a case of diminishing returns. Each compression cycle removes more bits. So if the first render to MPEG-2 results lets say in 10% of the bits getting removed the second render to MPEG-1 starts out with a lot less to work with and because it uses lower bitrates it is really going to take a bite of what remains. So not a good idea if you can avoid it.

However if you take a MPEG source file and "arrest it" (my term) by converting it to AVI, whatever bits were there, remain there (pretty much anyways) so any damage is less severe. And as I keep bragging I got really good results going a little crazy with various FX filters so even with my rather low grade MPEG-1 source files the final VCD and SVCD output was really nice,, considering. <wink>

If you want to overcome the file size limitation, one way (what I did before moving up to making DVD's) was to simply break my final video on the Vegas timeline into sections so not to exceed the maximum your file system supports then I just rendered each section as AVI, then converted each of those in TMPGenc going to either VCD or SVCD. Once done with that I used the combine feature in TMPGEnc to put humpty-dumpty back together again. A disadvantage was you could get a 'pop' at the gaps. You'd be better off using NTFS which supports large files, which may mean upgrading your OS.

I think even SonicFoundy will admit their MPEG-1 encoder is out classed by TMPGenc. Different story for the MC MPEG-2 encoder which I find gives excellent results and is as good as if not better then TMPGenc in my opinion at least.

Since you are happy with overall quality with MPEG-1 going the TMPGenc route, then a couple things thing beyond the 2 pass variable bitrate you may want to mess with are tweaking the DC component precession. The higher the number the less artifacts, but as a trade off you're also loose sharpness. If you can live with a softer image try that. I don't have it installed on my machine anymore so I forget what the default was I'm thinking 9-10 was a good value. Change Motion search precision to one level below max. This does have an effect on reducing block noise. If block noise is very noticeable try different setting on the Quantiz Matrix tab. Higher number again will hide more block noise, but as you increase the value your picture will be more and more blurry or soft looking. Settings between 20-30 worked good for my stuff.

I know... so many choices. <wink>