No, I wouldn't say it was "essential". Then again, it depends entirely on what you need to do. Based on what I've seen here, most Vegas users, myself included, have yet to realize the full potential of Vegas.

Whatever you do, don't get sucked into the mentality that you have to have more gear and/or more software to be a better filmmaker, because it simply isn't true!

You want eye catching videos done only with Vegas?
Go to Chienwork's site and search out clips from GmElliott.
Next, check out Stonefield's site.
Finally, "Cathy's First Time" at mjroddy's site was a (well deserved) VASST contest winner.

Mike

I think that if you really want to find out then you should find a set of tutorials you want to do, download the demo of AEFX, and throw yourself into it. You only have a small amount of time before the demo runs out, though.

Yes, AEFX does more than Vegas can, but if the meat of what you want to do is edit then vegas is the tool, not aefx.

You know, you could also spend your time on your writing craft, your shooting craft, your fund raising craft... there are lots of things that go into "taking it to the next level", and I'd put afterFX way behind these.

Rob Mack

No point to this post really.

Hmm, I wonder why "cathy's first time" is a contest winner?
Christ, we see a hot chick and all of a sudden it's a winning contestant?
Other than that...it's ...a video.

** has nothing to do with the editor or filmographer btw - I'm sure they're all tops. Take that out of the equation **

But what is so "winning" about this vid? Use of Barbara Walters Blur, a hot chick, and cutscenes?
I've seen lots of veg made films that actually had a point (not just a hot chick).

I'd like to see contests dealing with short film/feature length submittals.
This one made no sense btw.

Was it cathy's first time walking thru her doorway? Unbuttoning her shirt? Sitting in a chair?
Clicking a mouse? And if so who set that system up for her? At that point, one would think THAT would be the larger subject of Cathy's first time.
She sits down and the light ray of God emits from the monitor. Maybe she saw her online bank statements.

But what is so "winning" about this vid?

I guess you completely missed the good lighting, editing and camera work that went into the video.
Did you even bother to read the tutorials and try to learn somethng?

Mike

"Was it cathy's first time walking thru her doorway? Unbuttoning her shirt? Sitting in a chair?"

No, it was Kathy's first Vegas experience.

She clicked on the Vegas 5.0 shortcut on the desktop.

"Who among us can say they use Vegas ALONE to turn out really eye catching video."

Why? Why do you need to single-out - "among us" - what is or ISN'T eye catching? BTW just what in your terms is "eye catching" anyway?


"Is AE essential to move on to the next level or is Vegas more powerful than I am aware?"

Without me spending some hours with you, just how would I know about YOUR awareness?

OK, these are great questions you are asking. However, I'm understanding that there is "another" subset of questions/investigation/research that you are teetering on the edge of.

Grazie

>>>I guess you completely missed the good lighting, editing and camera work that went into the video.
Did you even bother to read the tutorials and try to learn somethng?<<<

whoa there tiger, I didn't say it was bad...just wondering how in the hell it's the 10sec winner. We all have seen tons of great vids (most with GREAT lighting and cam work - not just 'good"). All I'm saying is this vid may have won for one obvious reason - the letters T and A.

Don't need the tutes, but thanks.

Sherman -

I guess I can say that I use Vegas alone to create what I think is eye-catching video.

Up until 5 years ago I was using a combination of AVID MC 4000 with the Aladdin Genie ($120,000) and the After Effects production bundle ($1,500).

I shifted to Vegas 3 because my business changed from 35mm acquistion and digital editing for national TV commercials to DV acquisition and editing for industrial/corporate clients.
My work was not quite as effect laden as before.
I was amazed at the facility and ability of Vegas 3, and that ability has only gotten better with the passing years.
No one can be an "expert" in all the various software packages available today - unfortunately, you've got to choose.
This choice will be made based upon your end requirements.

If you are hauling lumber you need a truck. If you are saving lives you need an ambulance. If you are racing cross country you need a sports car. A Ferriri sucks at hauling lumber.

If you want to be an effect wizard, with short pieces laden with various effects then stick with the standard and master After Effects. If you want to be a storyteller (with still probably more effects than you'll ever really learn or master) - then go with Vegas.

It'll DEFINITELY do the job until you NEED and understand enough to not have to ask the original question.

best,
v

Jaydeeee, not only do I find your use of profanity offensive, it's not allowed here in the forum. If you will read the Terms of Service you will see that it states that "You agree not to... Transmit any content... [that is] vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable..."

All I'm saying is this vid may have won for one obvious reason - the letters T and A.

The comments posted on the VASST site about this particular spot at the time of the contest had very little to do with T&A and a lot with the creativity of the commercial.

Don't need the tutes, but thanks.

Care to show us samples of your work?

BTW, I'm not trying to stir up anything here.
Sherman's original question was "Who among us can say they use Vegas ALONE to turn out really eye catching video" and I provided links to videos I thought met his expectations. All 3 of these guys have a very creative eye and, IMHO, it shows in their work.

Mike

Thing is any of them could have been done with ANY NLE, I mean I and no doubt quite a few others here have edited with scissors and sticky tape and never did I feel that better scissors or sticky tape would have any effect on the final production, I'd go so far as to say the thing that would have the very least impact on any production is WHAT you edited it with.

Sure better tools make the job easier but they don't make the craftsman anymore skilled.

Bob.

> Is AE essential to move on to the next level or is Vegas more powerful than I am aware?

Since I don’t own AE I would have to say NO. It not “essential”. If you haven’t done a lot of compositing with masks, keyframing, generated gradients, 3D track motion etc. in Vegas then you haven’t scratched the surface of what Vegas can do. Sure there are things that AE can do that Vegas cannot, but AE is not essential at all unless your story depends on a particular effect that Vegas can’t do.

~jr

Well it really depends on what you want to do...

If you want "eye catching" video, it could mean:
A- Good broadcast design work / eye candy. After Effects is good for this. You don't necessarily need After Effects... there are some simple analog/in-camera effects that can be neat if you apply your creativity. But for graphics work, it would be best done in something like AE.

If you are looking for something faster, you can do some compositing tasks with Vegas' tools.

B- The video footage itself (ignoring graphics) looks good. This would be related to:
-- camerawork (i.e. compositing, camera moves, in-camera effects like using a polarizer, etc.)
-- lighting
-- color correction/grading in post

If you need to shoot stuff longer than 30s, I would focus your attention here.

In terms of what Vegas can do, it has some pretty strong color grading tools + 3rd party tools that expand on its toolset (i.e. Magic Bullet Editor's). VASST Celluloid is an cheaper/faster alternative to MBE that uses Vegas' tools to get the same gist.

An example of what Vegas can do:
link (this is an old example, but it suffices)

You can see what other people are doing with MBE:
http://www.the-silencer.co.uk>The silencer - edited on Vegas, color grading with MBE

*Disclaimer / obligatory shameless plug: I have a training DVD on the topic (with VASST) that includes many of the tricks I use.

Is it essential? Not really.

But I have found that the more I learn about other systems (graphics, NLEs etc) the more I learn about the craft. Because each system works a little differently, I have to think a little differently which causes me to expand my horizons and come to a project with more creative ideas as well as a better understanding of the applications capabilities.

It never hurts to know more than you need to know.

The one thing about After Effects that I like over Vegas is you can zoom in almost infinitely to a graphic or video. Vegas is limited on Zooms and repositioning, even in high resolution graphics.

But After Affects is very cumbersome when dealing with tracks. Each track can only hold one element. So if you have 50 slides that you are dissolving from/to, you need 50 tracks. (unless there is something in AE that I have completely missed)

Don't close your mind to using other systems because you think Vegas does everything you need. Open your mind and learn to use Vegas by using other systems.

I find that I keep coming back to Vegas because the keying, tracks and compositing are just easier. But again, it never hurts to be exposed to other systems.

Dave T2

>>>Jaydeeee, not only do I find your use of profanity offensive, it's not allowed here in the forum. If you will read the Terms of Service you will see that it states that "You agree not to... Transmit any content... [that is] vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable..."<<<


Dear Jay Gladwell,

What vulgar/hateful/racial language was that?
I said NOTHING of the sort.

How about you do this: (now i'll give you A REAL REASON for you to make such idiotic replies): Ignore this user (me) and then go to h*ll.

Yeah, these "christians" are the largest group of hypocrites walking the face of this earth. You're a beaming example, Jay.

If I have to wade thru and ignore your white, republican, christian extremist replies here ...I'm sure you can manage to SIMPLY ignore my posts here.

Do it, and don't ever type to me again. I won't waste time with fools like you. Are we green?

Ignore Jay Gladwell is now ON. We will NOT have this little problem again.

>>Care to show us samples of your work?

BTW, I'm not trying to stir up anything here.
Sherman's original question was "Who among us can say they use Vegas ALONE to turn out really eye catching video" and I provided links to videos I thought met his expectations. All 3 of these guys have a very creative eye and, IMHO, it shows in their work.

Mike<<<<

rs170,

They have the eye for casting for sure ;)

Yes, I would like to post some examples for you which utilize works done in Vegas alone. I'll check on clearance and hopefully shoot a few off to you. What is your website or email?

Mr. Gladwell is a white republican christian extremist?

I thought he was a black female Jewish dentist mud wrestler.

Referencing T and A is indeed a sexual and borderline sexist observation. But I do understand that the reference was made as an objection and not an endorsement of T and A. A certain license is implied when offering a critique.

And I know about license. I'm a white Southern semiliberal democrat ex-Methodist Zen Buddhist second husband.

Of course the T&A comment held that intention (even if I WAS endorsing T&A - which I always do ;) .... there still is no reason for that weasel to reply like that.
Although I DON'T recommend it...
If you go back through Mr. Biblethumpers post history, you'll get the clear picture of why I say "christian extremist".

Well, whatever he his to you...he will NOT be in MY eyesight on this forum any longer.
His comment was ludicrous, his intent was malicious. I don't see any need to banter on with that idiot.

Anyhoot, back to the subject:
I'd like to see the other contestants in that category, it's possible this is a valid winner. But it makes ya wonder what the competition was at that time.

Yes, I would like to post some examples for you which utilize works done in Vegas alone. I'll check on clearance and hopefully shoot a few off to you. What is your website or email?

Why not put a clip or two up on a site somewhere for everyone to have a look at?

Mike

Well you have to understand, I do have to get clearance. These aren't contest entries or fun personal projects.... these are for companies, artists, etc.
I could possibly send you a short/demo clip at best in email as example after getting clearance, but I can't just blindly post any of these for you on this forum.

* then again because of this, most of the content may bore the heck out of you.
** Depending on your view on video post prod in the pornography biz (see Jay Gladwell - he loves this stuff), I'm not sure I could send you earlier works from those days either (at least not on THIS website).
Hey - it's $, and I never discriminate.

Again, send me your email and/or website and I'll see what I can do. Best I can do.
When these latest works (for a popular musical instrument company) are released , I can send the direct links to ALL here (again - may bore the heck out of ya).

Ciao

If you are not yet versed in using paint programs, get Photshop or Paint Shop Pro and familiarize yourself with them. Then work with Vegas in the same manner as you would with those programs. I guarantee you will never look at Vegas in the same manner as you did before because you will begin to tinker with Vegas more to create the look that you want. I used Premiere before and I don't get that kind of curiosity about it as I do Vegas.