Comments

Former user wrote on 7/9/2015, 3:42 PM
You cannot render to Pro Res on a Windows computer, unless you use one of the few hacked programs. I think there are a couple of licensed pro res encoders for Windows, but they are very expensive.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/9/2015, 8:12 PM
Ffmpeg has an open source Prores encoder.

Former user wrote on 7/9/2015, 8:47 PM
That may be true, but it is not licensed by Apple. It is hacked.
D7K wrote on 7/9/2015, 11:09 PM
Found several ways, one I actually had, thanks for the responses:

1. proDAD Mercalli Pro 4.0 has ProRes 422 as an output choice with 3 resolutions.

2. The program FootageStudio 4k also looks like a great option for such an inexpensive price (Handles Sony 4 K codec as well)
Former user wrote on 7/9/2015, 11:24 PM
FYI

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321
D7K wrote on 7/10/2015, 6:24 PM
interesting, I have Photoshop CC I can do it that way also. I am surprised that Mercalli Pro v4 is not on that list as it is used by many of the production houses, I'll drop them a line and see what the say.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/10/2015, 7:55 PM
"Hacked" is a strong word, implying theft, unlawful use, or alteration of protected code.
"Unlicensed by Apple" is the correct term here, as all code under ffmpeg's control is written from scratch. It is not illegal, and carries the GNU/GPL LICENSE.

If Apple licensed encoders were added to Vegas Movie Studio (as in Sony Catalyst), how much more are you willing to pay for the product ?

Sometimes it's actually more effective to skip the drama.
D7K wrote on 7/10/2015, 10:58 PM
I will say I've been using Mercalli for Getty and Istock for 1080 and never had a problem. Just tried it with Photoshop and it takes forever on my 6 core. Have to do an upgrade this year. would not need ProRes but its the only flavor that Getty and Istock will take. I don't know, $10 added to the price of SMS would be ok. But since Mercalli is working fine for me now I just stick with it.

I try not to buy anything Apple:)
musicvid10 wrote on 7/19/2015, 7:27 AM
"
Wow jr, from someone I have come to respect and rely on for expert reasoning and guidance over the years, that is truly a surprising declaration. However, since it seems to have been posted purely for dramatic effect, I'm going to forgive the implications without condition.

I'm certain you would be as surprised as anyone if I came out advocating drug abuse.

As far as our definitions of a "hack," you've indicated that they are entirely at odds. I respect that also, but I'm unconvinced that reverse-engineering in the absence of theft constitutes illegality in a capitalist democracy; has Apple actually sued the open source community over ProRes license infringement? What was the outcome?

Also, please don't ignore the compelling notion that Apple itself has contributed to the emergence of free open source alternatives to its encoders for mainstream Windows and Linux users. Their business model has relied on secrecy, jealousy, and the indentureship of its customer base since the beginning. It's a company town, plain and simple. Like Adobe, the sustainability of the corporate-centric anticompetitive business model has become increasingly questionable in recent years.

All Apple has to do to make the problem go away forever is include a ProRes encoder in its Quicktime for Windows libraries.

Avid's free encoder is every bit the equal of ProRes for most consumers. Google gives its encoders away. So does "almost" everyone else whose intention is to serve the greater interest, not solely to sabotage and punish the competition.



musicvid10 wrote on 7/19/2015, 3:12 PM
"Apple ProRes is not free."
My point entirely. With no consumer-level options in Windows. Apple's unenlightened business model has planted the seeds for third party solutions like ffmpeg, as well as the usually expected Russian chicanery (which reportedly involves theft and redistribution of Apple's source code.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but aftermarket products are not illegal. A Chinese module for my car costing half as much may meet the original OE patent specs, but is legal for the store to sell and for me to purchase and install as long as the labeling is not misleading. FFmpeg encoders ARE legally licensed under GNU/GPL, and those licenses are clear to explain just what they are. The "what they are" isn't illegal, isn't licensed or controlled by Apple, and isn't a theft of source code, which along with the branding, constitute the major licensable portions of software IP ownership.

musicvid10 wrote on 7/19/2015, 3:35 PM
"
I'll defer comment on your closing sentences until I've seen independent verification of the several areas you have independently designated as "illegal." Usually that verification would come in the form of successfully concluded litigation or at the very least, an injunction or settlement. I'm not finding that.

Since we know Apple's decades-long history of litigious-happy commerce, the notion that they simply "don't care" or "didn't bother" simply doesn't hold water.

I'm not so sure Apple's moral entitlement somehow trumps the logistical vacuum they have created in the industry. I'm unwilling to invite further pain from someone who I've gained so much respect for, so with that, I'll graciously bow out.

Best Regards.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/19/2015, 3:40 PM
"I'm unwilling to feel further pain from someone who I've gained so much respect for, so with that, I'll graciously bow out. "
I'm not trying to inflict pain. I'm a software developer and I've had my ideas stolen and my business revenue taken away by people who don't care, so perhaps I'm a little more sensitive to people stealing software IP than others.

I apologize if anything I said came off as being hostile. I was just arguing a point that I am passionate about and that's obeying software licensing agreements.

At least we both agree that ffmpeg is "unlicensed". I guess we don't agree that selling licensed software without a license is illegal.

I've deleted my posts because it was never my intent to give pain to anyone. My apology,

~jr
musicvid10 wrote on 7/19/2015, 4:14 PM
" I guess we don't agree that selling licensed software without a license is illegal."
I'm sure you know that ffmpeg does not sell software.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/19/2015, 5:41 PM
"I'm sure you know that ffmpeg does not sell software."

Poor choice of words. I should have said "distributing licensed software without a license".

The more important point for people looking for a ProRes encoder for Windows is that ffmpeg files have problems that cause performance issues and require re-encoding to a "real" ProRes codec so it's not something your going to want to use when working with professional Post Houses because they are probably going to charge you an extra fee to re-encode your files. I would stay away from it and buy a ProRes codec from a licensed 3rd party if you need one. But that's just me.

~jr
musicvid10 wrote on 7/19/2015, 6:42 PM
Given Apple's history with Sony, I wouldn't count on that happening here anytime soon.
Given that you've amply described the conundrum Window users are in, albeit indirectly, what options short of buying Premiere Pro do you suggest?
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/20/2015, 6:05 AM
"...what options short of buying Premiere Pro do you suggest?"
I suggest buying a Mac. That's what I did. ;-) Vegas Pro and Movie Studio run great on it in Bootcamp or VMware Fusion. If you are collaborating with others that require ProRes then those people are probably using Macs and you should too. It's like showing up for a foreign auto mechanics job with a set american wrenches. They aren't going to fit the bolts on a metric car. It's a matter of using the right tool for the job.

This question has already been answered by DonaldT. He suggested Acrovid FootageStudio 4k and he provided a link to the list of Apple ProRes Authorized Products. All you need to do is look through that list and find a product that runs on Windows. I didn't see Acrovid on the list of authorized products so perhaps they are using ffmpeg under the covers? That's what you need to be careful about. Some people will sell you ffmpeg with a GUI in front and call it their own so paying money is no indication that you are getting a licensed ProRes product.

I did look around a bit and the ProRes encoder that many people were recommending for Windows is Miraizon but I see they went out of business! Maybe they didn't have a license to sell ProRes? I don't know. I remember reading that people were having trouble with their files so maybe it was a quality issue.

Here is one that I did find:

Cinemartin Cinec 4.0

I'm really not the person to make a recommendation because I've never used any of these Windows products because I don't own a PC anymore. I work exclusively with Macs now so I have no issues creating real ProRes files for the Post Houses I need to collaborate with but I have been on the receiving end of an ffmpeg ProRes fake and they perform poorly in Final Cut Pro X and other Mac NLE's which is why I don't recommend you give them to Mac editors.

BTW, here is the discussion on Reddit about the Apple ProRes codec reverse engineered. Apparently some countries don't honor American Patents and Licenses and so if you live in one of those countries you can do anything you'd like to software. It seems that the person who "broke the law" for ffmpeg lives on one of these countries so there is nothing legally that Apple can do about it. What a wonderful global world we live in. That still doesn't make it right for people who live in countries that acknowledge laws and patents to use it.

~jr

musicvid10 wrote on 7/20/2015, 7:05 AM
Oh, I'll rush right out and do that.
Best.