PTT Incompatible with "external" DV files

johnmeyer wrote on 10/19/2003, 12:50 PM
I used VirtualDub and the MainConcept DV encoder to create a DV AVI file. I then tried to send this file to tape (print to tape) via the Vegas "capture" application, through the 1394 connection. Vegas Capture started the camera recording, but no video was sent. The "Preview on Device" button didn't send video either.

I then tried Scenalyzer Live and it printed this file to tape just fine. (BTW, Scenalyzer only works with DV files, so this provides verfication that I didn't accidentally encode using non-DV settings in VirtualDub).

I then went back to Vegas Capture and tried a file that Vegas had created. It both previewed and printed just fine. Finally, I opend the file I was originally trying to print (the one created by VD and the MC DV codec) and tried to print. No luck.

I then put the file back into Vegas. Vegas reads the file just fine. When I right-click on the media file, it reports "Format: DV" so it sees it as a standard DV file. What is more amazing is that if I "Preview on External Monitor," it shows up and plays just fine on the external monitor. Very weird.

I realize that Vegas has no "obligation" to deal with files created by other applications, but since the encoding was done by a Mainconcept product, and since there is quite a bit of Mainconcept technology in Vegas, I would have thought there would be better compatibility.

Fortunately, I have other tools (Scenalyzer) that will let me get around this problem for the time being, but I consider this a bug and hope it gets fixed.

I have WinXP Pro (SP1).

PostScript: I just discovered one other thing: If I add a second file to the Vegas Capture "Print to Tape" queue, and that file was created by Vegas, then the first file in the queue -- the one created by VirtualDub that won't play -- suddenly plays and prints just fine, but without any audio.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 10/19/2003, 9:24 PM
MainConcept is used for MPEG only in Vegas, so Vegas isn't going to be able to optimize MainConcept DV files. Vegas only prints Vegas files, which is as it should be, in terms of optimization. Vegas can't print Canopus files via software or hardware, nor Pinnacle, Matrox, Avid files either, and none of those tools will print Vegas files either. It's all about codecs, optimization, and proprietary tools. Sure, Sony could write a PTT tool that would print all the other formats, but why should they expend the efforts to guarantee quality of someone else' product? would be a benefit to users, but only a minimal one.
filmy wrote on 10/19/2003, 11:07 PM
I wanted to chime in and say that doing output via the capture mod will work with MC encoded DV files. WHat will not work is if you try and do a 24p render outside of VV. I had this happen to me as I was rendering out some work from After Effects at 24p using MC DV. When i brought these files into the VV cap mod for out put - nothing. These same files play fine in Premiere, WinDV and on the VV timeline. I posted in the SoFo VV forums and the resonse from either SonicDennis or SonicEPM was that 1>files dropped into the cap mods output window had to be all of the same type (Frame rates and NTSC or Pal - not a mix) and 2> When is comes to 24p currently VV will only read headers either created *by* VV or captured from the DVX100.

So if your file was 24p than you are correct that it will not output, but I wouldn't call the reason a 'bug'. If it was 30i file than it should play out fine with almost any DV wrapper/codec. As I say - I use MC DV and the files play fine as long at they are not rendered at 24p.
johnmeyer wrote on 10/19/2003, 11:36 PM
I guess I wasn't clear. I rendered using the MainConcept DV codec, not their MPEG codec.

I am pretty sure that this is a bug in Vegas Capture. As proof, I found that I could not only display the "problem" video to an external monitor from the Vegas timeline, but I was also able to print to tape from the Vegas timeline.
filmy wrote on 10/19/2003, 11:59 PM
>>> I guess I wasn't clear. I rendered using the MainConcept DV codec, not their MPEG codec.

I am pretty sure that this is a bug in Vegas Capture. As proof, I found that I could not only display the "problem" video to an external monitor from the Vegas timeline, but I was also able to print to tape from the Vegas timeline.<<<

You were clear. Did you read my post? Maybe I wasn't clear.

You can drop almost any file onto the VV timeline and do a PTT and it will be output via firewire.

You can drop almost any 30i/30p DV Avi file into the VV Capture mod for output to tape. You put them in and click on "preview in external monitor" and both audio and video are being output via firewire.

You can *only* currently get DVX100 captured with VV or VV rendered 24p DV AVI files to play out via firewire from the VV capture mod. Rendering 24p in any program with any DV based codec/wrapper and you will not be able to output this way.

You can not mix -n- match DV AVI files of various frame rates in the VV capture mod. (ie - 24p and 30i )

I think I was more clear with that?

If I am not here is what SonicEPM said to my question several months ago:
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24p DV files from the Panasonic camera (or those rendered from Vegas using the 24p DV templates) have specific header info that are required for print to tape in SF Vidcap. AfterFX does not currently support reading or writing these "special" 24p DV files, so that's the reason Vidcap can't print them.

Side note: Many companies at NAB claimed that they would be supporting 24p DV in the future (Apple in fact has been promising this for close to a year), but as of this writing I don't think anyone else writes a 24p DV avi that we can read. DVFilmaker does 24p Quicktime, so that won't work without conversion. Blade...haven't tried it. Might work, might not.
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johnmeyer wrote on 10/20/2003, 1:38 AM
But I'm not doing anything whatsoever with 24p. Everything I'm dealing with is 29.97 NTSC interlaced video.