Question about first attempt to use DVDA

OldTimer wrote on 8/25/2003, 2:28 AM
I'm slowing inching toward trying to get my first DVD made. I had a large project rendered to MPEG2 using the default settings for PAL & made a file that is 4.4 GB. I know that DVD is supposed to hold up to 4.7GB so this should allow about 300MB for menus etc. I opened DVDA & double clicked the file & before I did anything else I decided to see what the optimize feature displayed. It tells me that the menu should take 1MB & that my MPEG2 file will be 5913MB or 23% over the limit. I have under option burning set to 4.7GB. How can this be? Where is the extra 1.5GB coming from?

If I use the slider in this box once having selected the project file should not the estimated file size change? It didn't.

At the bottom of this screen it allows audio settings. If I alter my projects sound settings from stereo to AC3 will the sound be recoded without problems?

When I first clicked on my MPEG2 file it started to play the sound & I found that sound stuttered. I assumed that something must have gone wrong with the encoding. I closed DVDA found file in explorer & clicked it so that it started playing in Windows Media Player & this it did without stuttering. Can I assume that my file is OK & that maybe I have something set incorrectly in DVDA that is preventing it from playing properly?

Should I have encoded by project using a differant template to begin with?

Comments

kameronj wrote on 8/25/2003, 6:59 AM
It's funny - but I had the same thought process when I went to go make my first DVD.

I have "tivo'd" a bunch of my favorite TV shows and I wanted to save on DVD. Each eps is only like 500 mb (as an Mpeg) so I'm thinking - hell...I should be able to fit at least 8 or 9 eps on a disc (and have some space for basic menus).

But nooooooooooo!!! It don't work like that.

This morning I took a 1 gig file to make a DVD. with no sub menu's and optimization at 96%....DVDA recognizes 4.3 gig.

So taking a file that is already 4.4 gig and preparing it in DVDA - that puppy is gonna be big.

Unfortunately I'm still in my learning phase so I don''t know all the ins/outs how or whys as to what is happening (I'm sure someone else can fill in the blanks). Heck, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I was right in thiking I should be able to get 8 files of 500 mb each on a DVD to play back in a DVD Player. Maybe there is a button I'm not checking.

Who knows?

No...really...who knows? Cause I'd really like to know myself.

JakeHannam wrote on 8/25/2003, 11:59 AM
WestAussie,

I can't answer all your questions except for the one about recoding as AC-3. You WILL lose some quality by going from PCM to AC-3 because AC-3 is what they call a 'lossy' codec. However, you will be able to save a significant amount of space by doing so. Also, while there is some quality loss (and some people say AC-3 makes the volume too low -- see other posts on this forum), I really don't think you will be able to notice the difference between the original PCM and the AC-3 encoding. Maybe an audiophile would be able to tell and there may be some way of measuring the differences on a scope or something but generally there is NO perceptible audible loss in quality.

After all, commercial movie-makers use AC-3 encoding all the time.

As for using a template, my understanding is you should use the DVD-A template in Vegas for the best results. However, since your video is so close to the size limit already, you should probably 1) reedit it to make it shorter or 2) use a lower bitrate setting for the MPEG encoding or 3) do both.

Finally, I would recommend using a rewritable DVD (-RW or +RW) so you won't have a coaster when you are done (if something doesn't go right during the process).

I hope some of this helps.

Jake
jeffcrow wrote on 8/26/2003, 12:35 PM
Ah yes, the ol' advertising thing. When is 4.7 gig not really 4.7 gig? When 4.2 gig does not sound as good on the box!!! Have you ever installed a new hard drive? It is pretty disappointing to install your new 200 gig drive and find it really only has about 180 gig in it! But how is this possible? False advertising? Well somewhere in the fine print, with hard drives anyway, will be the clause, "We use 1024 bytes to represent 1 kilobyte" But what does it mean?! It means for every 1000 bytes, they add that extra 24 bytes, resulting in a much bigger number.

The k, MB, Gig extra are all terms based on the binary number system, you know, the ones and zeros that computers use. So those names are supposed to represent numbers that are powers of 2. Us non computer nerds expect a "k" to be about 1000 bytes, so 10k should be 10,000 right? Well the nerds know a k is actually 1024 bytes, so 10k is actually 10240 bytes, an extra 240 bytes.

So when advertisers refer to the capacity of something, we all expect 100 MBs to be 100 million bytes right? (wrong!). But if it is really 102,400,000 bytes, isn't it 102.4 MB? Doesn't 102.4 make you want to buy it more then just 100?

The problem is this non-computer way of refering to capacity using the base 10 system we all know, rather then the base 2 system it is, and knowing which one to use and when. The problem was created by Windows when MS decided to have it refer to size using base 10. But the real size is actually bigger. Xp now shows you both the common base 10 representation of the size of a file, and the actual base 2, which is the real file size. So your 200 gig drive does indeed have 200 gig, but Windows shows it as 1000 bytes per k, which makes it look smaller.

So a DVD really does have 4.7 gig of space, but Window tells you 4.7 gig of data is a file size of about 4.2 gig, very confusing.

So when you use Windows to tell you the size of the files you are going to burn to the DVD, it is understating the true size. If you have XP, right click on the file or folder and choose properties, look at the "size on disk" number, not the "size". This is the actual number of bytes in the file. It is much bigger then the number Windows usually reports as the size.

This is why so many people are having trouble with getting their projects to fit on a 4.7 gig DVD. Windows is reporting the size using the common base 10 method, which understates the true size. So 4.2 gig of data, using base 10, is the max that will fit on a DVD, because 4.2 in base 10 is equal to 4.7 in base 2.

Confused yet? Just think of it this way, the comon and Windows way to refer to a file size understates its true size. When advertisements or spec sheets refer to size, they are going to state the true size (usually). So always remember your files are bigger then what Windows is telling you they are.

Go into DVDA and use optimize to see what is really going on. But if you use avi files in DVDA, or if DVDA is rerendering your mpegs, keep in mind that the media size stated under optimize is just an estimate, the true size will not be known until after the render, so it could end up rendering into a longer file then estimated.

So the best thing to do is:

Always use the "Size on disk" as the true size in Windows

Always go to Optimize to check the estimated size.

Always allow yourself extra space, especially when rerendering needs to be done.

Shoot for media size of less then 4.2 gig to go onto a 4.7 gig DVD.

Now some of you may say, I put 4.7 gig on a DVD and it worked. How long did it take DVDA to render it? Remember that if you go over the limit, and DVDA will be rerendering something, it will automatically lower the bitrate to make it fit.

Lets say you have a 4.5 gig DVDA template mpeg and a .2 gig avi, should fit right? Well keep in mind that the menus, as well as the file structure that gets burned to the DVD also take up some of that space. Since DVDA will be rendering the avi but not the mpeg, it will crank up the compression on the avi to make it all fit. This could really degrade the avi since all the needed compression will be applied to that one file. I learned that the hardway.

Hope this all helps!
Mandy wrote on 8/28/2003, 6:48 AM
How do you deleate items from optomize? I de;eated from project and they are still showing up