Questions about rendering / speed / streaming

mvideotime wrote on 4/27/2012, 9:22 PM
Vegas Studio HD PE 11.322
AMD Athlon II X4 620 2.6GHz
8G Ram
Win 7 64-bit
Nvidia Ge-Force 9800GT

I have offered to help a small non-profit with editing about 30 hours of instructional video for web delivery (I have a lot of web dev and audio editing experience but not a lot of video experience so please bear with my detailed post – thank you in advance for any insights on making this project more efficient). The goal is to provide two quality levels, high and standard: 1280 X 720 at 1280 kbps and 1280 X 720 at 800 kbps. Our media presents a powerpoint presentation that fills 70 % of the screen and the other thirty % shows the speaker presenting this PPT; the PPT details cannot be read properly except at full screen.

We know that we also want the files to play well on iOS and Android Tablets, so the renders will be MP4s. They will need to stream to users, and run between 10 – 60 min long. Any suggestions for an open-source or paid player that allows streaming to iOS devices as well as desktops (without allowing saving of files) from a CDN would be welcome (in the past I have used JW Player and Flow Player). I am also looking at Vzaar.com as a streaming provider – are there any other similar services that you can recommend for budget deployment and extensive user customization features?

My main questions are about the workflow and encoders I am considering: I believe we can get good results for the standard quality files by rendering the higher quality version masters at 1280 kbps, then taking those and batch processing them in Handbrake or another batch encoder (or encoding service provider) to downscale to 800 kbps, same size. Any advice on the best quality batch encoders would be appreciated, and especially an answer to this question:
Which is the better encoder to use from Vegas for my specific need to then batch downscale the files:
Sony AVC/MVC - Internet 1280x720-30p (1280kbps)
MainConcept AVC/AAC - Apple iPad/iPhone 4 720p30 Video around 1280 Kbps (2 pass or constant bit-rate or variable bitrate? Is 2 pass worth the extra time if there is only medium/low movement in frames?).

Another question regards tips for optimizing my computer's render speed; this is what I am currently doing: I am rendering to a different drive than the sources (which are on the boot drive, along with Vegas), and I raise the process priority level to high for Vegas when rendering. A 20 min file of typical editing takes nearly 4 hours, which seems slow and poses practical issues to the rendering of 60 files required for completion (in less than a month). I wonder what the best (easy/inexpensive) ways are to improve render times moving forward. I saw Game Booster mentioned somewhere as a way to reduce other processes safely, and I have installed it and the AMD Fusion program that does about the same thing. My thread number is set at 4 max and the CPU is at 100% almost constantly during rendering.

Is it maybe worth downloading the Vegas Pro trial (and if I do, is it possible to run the two programs off the same drive without problems, easily load the .vf files from Studio into Pro, and then load the Pro versions back into Studio? - I realize the last option is highly unlikely, but may be important as we cannot afford the Pro upgrade...unless there is a significant non-profit discount available). I could also possibly run it from my dual-core Vista laptop to double rendering capacity, albeit at a much slower pace.

Thank You,

MM

* Editing source files are Quicktime MP4s at 18Mbps.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 4/27/2012, 9:47 PM
Why 1280 and 800Kbps? They're not enough different to be worth it in my opinion. I could see offering 1600 and 400 maybe, but anyone who can stream 800 can probably stream 1280 or even 3600 just as well.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/27/2012, 10:31 PM
Lots of questions, perhaps you should break it into separate threads if something gets lost.

As already mentioned, the difference from 800 to 120 Kbps is small and probably not worth the second encode.

Can you get the PPT slides?

You aren't streaming - that requires a streaming server. You are delivering video over HTTP.

I've only used the JW player, but I have migrated most of my work to You Tube (it's surprisingly more versatile as a video host than many realize), and to Vimeo.

2-Pass VBR or CBR? If the content is a talking head in front of a PPT screen, you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference from CBR and VBR. Persoanlly, I use Main Concept AVC to generate my MP4 files.

Render speed. You aren't rendering, you are encoding, notwithstanding that Sony put the encode processes in the "Render As" menu. Time to encode is highly dependent on the content. Since you are going from QT MP4 files to AVC files, every frame has to be re-rendered and encoded. This could take a while. Four hours for a 20-minute video may not be unreasonable. Any F/X will slow the encoding, lowering the opacity will REALLY slow the encode - make sure you didn't accidentally nudge the track opacity to 99%.

Game booster and other programs like Startup Cop do very little with the total time to encode.

You can run Vegas Pro and Studio side-by-side. You can open Studio projects in Pro, but not vice-versa. Sony does have a generous Educational and Non-Profit price.

How big are your QT files? If they are 2GB or less you could send me one along with your project file and I'll give it a whirl on my workstations here. There's a good chance that a PC upgrade might be in order, but I used your exact configuration for a couple of years.

Vegas Pro 11 will not run on Vista. That's no surprise since Windows Vista itself barely runs without crashing. But you might be able to run the Studio program on the Vista laptop.

monoparadox wrote on 4/27/2012, 10:46 PM
Tried the updated Skydrive? (as of a couple days ago) If you have an existing one, go get it activated immediately to keep your free 25 gig. Otherwise, it's now 7 gig free. Works great with MP4. I believe you can now upload 2 gig files.
mvideotime wrote on 4/28/2012, 9:10 AM
Thank you for everyone's suggestions. Seems 1500 Kbps for the master and 768 Kbps for the second option would ensure that even someone on a slower DSL can have an uninterrupted viewing experience, a key requirement. Anything lower in quality and the text in the PPT track (slides not available) will not remain clear enough. Also wanting to save bandwidth, so given 1500 works, I'll keep it there...

The videos need to be accessed from a protected members only area, and will probably need to be streamed (as opposed to progressive download - videos should not be downloaded to user's machines) - Vzaar offers an interesting streaming and progressive service that may be appropriate. I will be testing it soon, and presume their encoders will be similar in quality to Handbrake.

I guess I'll go with MainConcept single pass (results look good); should deblocking also be selected?

From my research, it seems like Vegas Pro's GPU acceleration would not really work with my current video card, and thus not likely to increase my encoding performance.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/28/2012, 8:55 PM
"videos should not be downloaded to user's machines"

If I can see it, I can copy it.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/28/2012, 9:13 PM
"and will probably need to be streamed"

As I said earlier, streaming requires a streaming server. You can DIY if you are running your own Linux server and hosting your videos and have installed streaming server software.

Many people, especially videographers who should know better, confuse any video delivery as streaming. Almost all of the self-hosted video is progressive download (sometimes incorrectly called HTTP Streaming).
mvideotime wrote on 4/30/2012, 4:22 AM
Yes, there is some confusion about progressive download vs streaming. Vzaar is true streaming - and even affordable (am planning to talk to them today), Oculu will have it also within months (talked to them last week), and streaming can also be delivered using something like Amazon Coudfront from Easy Video player (I believe - need to verify by testing). I will update my experiences here as I dial in an appropriate solution.

I have heard that Edgecast is now a leading CDN for video (Oculu is in essence a simple interface to their network):
http://www.edgecast.com/services/streaming/#benefits_tab