Radeon 6870 / Vegas Pro 11

David Johns wrote on 10/29/2011, 12:34 PM
Let me prefix this by saying that I love Vegas Pro. I evangelise it to anybody who'll listen (and others who won't!).

That makes it all the more disappointing that having spent a large chunk of money and a large chunk of time installing a shiny new Sapphire Radeon 6870 card (and the new PSU that it demands to power it), I seem to get absolutely zero benefit from it whatsoever.

I am running a fully-licenced copy of Vegas Pro 11 64-bit on Vista. I have the latest Radeon drivers (11.9 I think). It took me a bit of messing about to get my dual-screens configured the way I like them but so far no crashes or weird graphics behaviour etc.

Vegas recognised that I have the card - there is an option for "AMD" under "GPU acceleration" in the Preferences...Video tab

But playback is at exactly the same speed as it is with it off (or in Vegas 10)

I bought this card partly because I'm clueless about graphics cards (all these product names and specs are maddening), partly because I already had a Radeon 3600 which worked OK, and mostly because in Sony's published benchmarks, it was the 6870 that offered the best preview improvement.

Am I missing something? Is there some other switch somewhere that I have to set?

AMD's own GPU Monitor software merely crashed when I ran it so I have no idea even if the card is being talked to by Vegas at all.

I tried standard-def PAL DV with a mix of Sony and Sapphire Edge effects; I tried AVCHD with event and track colour correction. No improvement whatsoever

I'm fed up and banging my head against the keyboard. I *so* wanted better preview speeds dammit.

Dave

Comments

hazydave wrote on 10/29/2011, 2:39 PM
I have the next line from that GPU, the HD6970, and I've done some benchmarks. I actually bought both the HD6970 and the nVidia GTX570, that's about the limit of my cash for this, and I've decided that the GTX570 is going back. At least part of that is the fast that the video output of the GTX570 I have was horrible... I looked like analog video with bad/mismatched termination. Don't even know how you'd get that with a digital device... but that didn't affect the benchmarks.

My system is otherwise an AMD1090T (x6, 3.2GHz) with 16GB RAM. I'm pretty certain that the CPU performance and even the system performance (actual PCIe speeds) will have an effect on your results, too, which is why I listed this here.

I started with a simple project: AVCHD video (HMC40 camcorder, "PG" mode, 720p60) , one crossfade, with the Sony Brightness/Contrast plug-in applied globally, and a straight render. For preview, I found Vegas 10 did 51.6fps, Vegas 11 non-GPU did 57.4fps, and with GPU I only got 40fps. Not a good start.

Rendering to MainConcept MPEG-2 (25Mb/s, 720p60, VBR 2-pass), I found Vegas 11 no-GPU rendered 9.1% faster than Vegas 10, while with the GPU, 20% slower! I then rendered to Sony AVC (16Mb/s, 720p60, CBR) and found, versus Vegas 10, VP11 did 13% faster without GPU, 25.6% faster with GPU.

Ok... so next, I layered four 50Mb/s 720p60 MXF clips in two parts. In the first, I did a animated break out into four quadrants, in the second, it was just four layers with transparency. No plug-ins. Vegas 10 and 11 did 2.4fps average playback, so did Vegas 11 with GPU on the GTX570. However, the HD6970 did 5fps. Not amazing, but still a 108% improvement.

In rendering to MainConcept again, I saw a 2% slowdown, VP11 vs. VP10, without the GPU, but a 43% speedup with the HD6970. The GTX570 crashed with some kind of OpenCL or CUDA error. I rendered to Sony AVC, same as before, and saw VP11 render 6.6% faster without GPU, 27% faster on the HD6970, and 15.9% faster with the GTX570.

That project was set to best quality and 32-bit pixels. I ran it again with 8-bit pixels and "good" quality. Very different. I found I got 18fps from Vegas 10, only 13fps from Vegas 11, no GPU, and only 10fps from Vegas 11 with the HD6970. I also found that VP11 rendered to MPEG-2 19% slower without GPU, 86% slower with GPU. To Sony AVC, I sw a 7.9% speedup with Vegas 11, but a 17% slower render once I enabled the GPU. Go figure.

Next, I ran a section of an actual animation project I was working on; this lots of PNGs, some raw AVI with alpha transparency, not many plug-ins, but lots of motion keyframing. I only ran this in Vegas 11, and only on the HD6970. I saw 5.1fps without GPU, 14fps with the GPU. In rendering, I saw a 25% speedup to Sony AVC, a 37% speedup to Main Concept AVC.

Finally, I ran Sony's VP11 benchmark. Like my animation, this has a mix of video, keyframe animation, but lots more effects. Without the GPU, I saw 8fps on my system. With the HD6970, I saw 28.5fps ... damn near full speed. With the GTX570, I saw 27.5fps, still very respectable.

I rendering, I got a whopping 118% speed up to Sony AVC on the HD6970, a pretty close 107% improvement with the GTX570. Rendering to XDCAM EX 1080i60, I saw a 210% improvement with the HD6970, a 175% improvement with the GTX570.

One curious thing is the CPU consumption. In the Sony benchmark, for example, I see 96% average CPU when rendering CPU-only... that's a pretty well tuned system. On the HD6970, I see CPU at 58% and GPU averaging 30%... and yet, this is the fastest render by far. The GTX570 gives me 75% CPU and 50% average GPU. I'm using GPU Shark to measure GPU, it has never crashed on my system.

I'll also point out I'm using the very latest AMD drivers. And that it's a royal pain installing these. I saw errors reported when I first installed... this was actually bogus -- they report an error if their attempt to install C++ framework stuff fails due to there being a newer version of that already in place. Major consumer hostility fail. So I tried again, which apparently boggered up their control panel software -- it gets wonky if installed more than once. So I had to run a couple of driver cleaners on my system to scrape away every bit of old AMD, ATi, and (while I was at it) nVidia stuff from my system. Seems good now.

If you're playing with effects, I wager that most run in realtime or close to with a CPU if you're applying them to standard PAL DV. And also keep in mind, only GPU-enabled effects are going to be accelerated, even when they can be. You can find the GPU accelerated FX listed, so this is easy to assure.

I'm a little underwhelmed, I'll admit, at the lack of preview performance on simple things. As shown, my system can preview 720p60 pretty much on the CPU alone. If I run video in a GPU-accelerated player (which uses DXVA 2.0, not OpenCL, so sure, it's more efficient), I can easily play four 1080p60 videos on my system, now, in full 59.97fps display. Hell, even the fairly wonky VLC can run at least three 1080p60 videos at absolutely full speed. So I do wonder why I'm actually losing performance on very simple things, even though I actually do see a speedup on some projects. And for me, since I do videos with a ton of layers, lots of animation, etc. I think I will, at least for some of my work, see a big win from the HD6970.



David Johns wrote on 10/30/2011, 11:31 AM
Crikey, that's comprehensive testing, thanks. Yes, someone has since pointed out on another thread that the Sapphire effects are only CUDA-enabled so the Radeon won't make a difference but I still saw no increase on AVCHD footage with only Sony Colour Correction applied, which is supposed to be GPU-accelerated.

Ah well, time to shell out some more for a Geforce 550Ti and see if that works...

Dave
david-ruby wrote on 10/30/2011, 9:40 PM
I am the one who has been having problems with a radeon 6870 and saphire edge plugs. Still working on the saphire edge with genarts. It is crazy. It plays slow by dropping frames with just film styles. Then I downloaded New Blue fx film looks and it performs perfect. I hope this gets worked out since I spent $300 on saphire. As amatter of fact I get out of sync audio with saphire edge in vegas after a bit. Crazy. BUT I love saphire's plugs and Vegas. They just need to work out the darn bugs. I am happier using a geforce gtx 560ti after returning the radeon.
David Johns wrote on 10/31/2011, 4:41 PM
Amazon reports my 550Ti is on its way so I'll post back any results.

Thanks for the info about Sapphire losing sync - the longest project I've used it on is only two minutes (!) so haven't seen the issue but it's useful to be aware of it.
Illusioneer wrote on 10/31/2011, 7:26 PM
Where can I find the preview fps? I have just installed a 6870 (based on the results that Sony published) and would love to add to the work that you did, but do not see the fps changing in my preview window. How do I measure them?
Illusioneer wrote on 12/19/2011, 11:43 AM
Anyone have an answer for me, please?
Tim20 wrote on 12/19/2011, 12:23 PM
Preview fps is at the bottom right of the preview screen it will show the current size of the preview and during playback the fps
MTuggy wrote on 12/19/2011, 12:44 PM
There is a reason I have stayed with Nvidia cards for the last 8 years. I never had good luck with the Radeon cards in several applications a while back and this may be another reason to stay away from them. I'm using an Nvideo 465 GTX, not that expensive anymore, with good results in Vegas 11.

Mike
Hulk wrote on 12/19/2011, 10:02 PM
I've been using ATI/AMD cards with no problems for the last 15 years. And three or four of them were the old All-In-Wonder cards. They were great until Comcast digitally encrypted all of my cable TV;)
dlion wrote on 12/20/2011, 8:41 AM
my first advice is to upgrade your vista to win 7. you can do it without reformatting and without losing your programs and settings. then get the latest win 7 drivers. my 2 cents.
Guy S. wrote on 12/20/2011, 1:06 PM
After looking at Sony's benchmark comparison between nVidia and AMD I purchased an AMD 6850 and a new PSU to run it. I downloaded the latest drivers.... and Vegas crashed constantly - at least 25 times in 5 hours - and I didn't see more than a minor improvement in timeline performance.

I went back and bought an nVidia 550ti card and Vegas crashed one time over the course of a weekend - about 18 hours of editing and the timeline performance was very much improved over Vegas 10e.

Guy
David Johns wrote on 12/21/2011, 1:58 PM
Sadly, since my KFA2 GeForce GTX 550Ti turned up to replace the ATI Radeon HD 6870 that made no noticeable difference, my PC has taken to locking up solidly at random intervals instead. It freezes completely so Dtrl-Alt-Del doesn't work, I have to power-off and restart. This is regardless of whether I'm running Vegas or not.

KFA have sent me a revised BIOS to try on the card but it's had another crash already. I did wonder if the PSU is up the spout but it's a freshly-purchased Antec 650W unit so should have plenty of poke to keep things running.

Fed up of upgrading now, should have stuck with Vegas 10e...
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/21/2011, 2:14 PM
sounds a lot like it's hardware issue to be sure.