random black leader duration again...sorry

Randy Brown wrote on 12/10/2002, 5:24 PM

I know that the subject of random lengths of black duration (even when set to zero) was discussed not long ago but I'd like to know what you would do in my situation please:
I have a project that is over an hour in length so I'm trying to go through my DV cam (manually) directly to VHS tape. I select zero for black leader duration and get as much as 7 minutes of it. I've tried to time it so that I know when to push record on the VHS recorder but it is too random. Also, I'm getting aliasing of my video even when rendering at "best quality". I've never had this problem before, could this be due to not printing to DV tape first?
TIA,
Randy

Comments

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/10/2002, 5:28 PM

Hi Randy,

Please post your project & PTT settings and describe in detail how you are outputting...

(It sounds like you are using the manual PTT from the TL, through the cam/convertor?)

MPH

Randy Brown wrote on 12/10/2002, 5:44 PM

yes Marty, exactly. Are these the details you need? NTSC DV (720x480, 29.970 fps)/ 0.9091 (NTSC DV)/ lower field first / I tried good and best renedering quality with no difference in the results (aliasing).
Thanks,
Randy

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/10/2002, 6:44 PM

Hi Randy,

How do the images look in the Vegas preview window when set to project size?

Also, are the segments that have aliasing prerendered? If so, is it poss that they were prerendered at a lower rez? Prerendered segments will not re-render prior to PTT even if the render rez is changed.

(I just prerendered a small segment of one event in draft, and then activated PTT at best... VV rendered the balance of the event at best, but left the draft segment intact.)

MPH

Randy Brown wrote on 12/11/2002, 8:13 AM

Marty said "How do the images look in the Vegas preview window when set to project size?"

they look fine

"Also, are the segments that have aliasing prerendered? If so, is it poss that they were prerendered at a lower rez? Prerendered segments will not re-render prior to PTT even if the render rez is changed."

No sir I didn't pre-render, I had made a small selection, then checked "render looped area only" in the PTT dialogue.

Thanks again Marty,
Randy

Randy Brown wrote on 12/11/2002, 12:40 PM

Marty said "How do the images look in the Vegas preview window when set to project size?"
My mistake Marty; I just looked again and it is doing the same thing in preview which I just didn't notice...but it's aliasing only when the subject is moving against a background of vertical slats. This was done at a university concert hall. The back of the stage has long vertical 1 X 2s on edge, 3/4 inch slats spaced about 1 inch apart, (used for aesthetics and acoustical purposes) creating some weird stuff on it's own. Does that tell you any more?
Thanks again Marty,
Randy

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/11/2002, 1:51 PM

Hi Randy,

Compressed video does break down on fine detail, it might just be that.

Could you post a still-frame (or send to vegaschains at yahoo dot com)?

MPH

Randy Brown wrote on 12/11/2002, 2:56 PM

Thanks Marty, I uploaded 3 .JPGs
here
The vertical slats I spoke of, don't do their strange effects (I'm sure there's a technical term but I don't know it) unless I move or zoom the camera.
Thanks again Marty,
Randy

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/11/2002, 3:31 PM

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the pix.

You might play back some original footage directly from your camera. CCD cameras are notorious for aliasing on straight lines.

If the footage looks OK off-tape, you might try changing the field order, or adding a touch of gaussian blur in Vegas.

MPH

craftech wrote on 12/11/2002, 10:11 PM

Sounds like a Sony camera.

SonyDennis wrote on 12/14/2002, 8:57 PM

Randy:

What I see in your pictures are just normal interlace lines. Nothing is wrong. The frame being displayed is composed of two video fields, seperated by 1/60 of a second. Any movement (subject or camera) will be seen as these lines.

///d@

Randy Brown wrote on 12/15/2002, 9:52 AM

Thanks craftech, yes, it's a Sony PD150 but I've heard rave reviews on this model.

Thanks Dennis, it only seems to happen against that particular background (the vertical slats on that stage). I will be doing occasional shoots there and wondering if there is anything that can be done (short of hanging a giant backdrop). Also, is the random black leader duration just something I'll have to deal with (recording to DV tape first and then manually cueing up to record to VHS)?
Thanks again guys,
Randy

statas wrote on 12/15/2002, 11:00 AM

i didn't read the entire thread, but try setting the color bar leader to 10 seconds (and second black leader to 3 seconds), which should be enough time to start recording.

Randy Brown wrote on 12/15/2002, 12:07 PM

Thanks status, but the problem is too much leader (as in up to 7 minutes when 0, 1, 2 etc. seconds are selected). The workaround is for me to record to DV tape first and then manually cue it up (past the 7 minutes of black) before recording to VHS but was just hoping there is something I'm overlooking.
Thanks again status,
Randy