Red screen of death, black frame, lip sync

Videoguy 16x9 wrote on 7/22/2007, 11:08 AM
Hello All,
This is my first post on this forum. My company (three Vegas workstations) has dealt with the same issues since switching from Premiere Pro to Vegas 7 three months ago. My background is in broadcast (ABC) where I learned all I could from the engineers on the how's and whys of video. Our experience has been that the red screen of death, black frames in clips that were good only a few minutes ago and building peaks, especially in long HDV footage seem to be interrelated. We are using two work arounds currently and if they are succesful, I will try to remember to get back on the post and share my findings. My first advice is set your preferences to only build peaks for visible items. Take each clip into the trimmer before putting it on the time line and trim at least two seconds off the end. Whether you take the clip as one long piece or a series of subclips, DO NOT USE THE LAST FEW SECONDS OF EVERY CLIP. Our shooters still have a hold over habit from our broadcast days of recording bars before and after every shoot, which has recently been very handy. This seems to have stopped the red screens of death, black frames and locking up the program. My second tip is when preparing a program for render, pre-render the m2t audio from the time line as a WAV, put the WAV on the timeline and resync (we use a sound "blip" before the program to do this, so it is really easy). Mute the audio track with the original m2t originated audio and use the WAV file to render out to DVD or for print to tape. We've only been doing this for a few days, but it seems to have cured our lip snyc issues. My theory is that near the end of the m2t file, if there is an open unfinished GOP that when the program is looking ahead to build peaks that it doesn't find the next I-frame that it locks up building peaks. My theory on the red screen of death is that once the program has "freaked out" a bit over the audio that it marks certain clips as "bad" or "corrupted", just not necessarily the same clip as caused the problem. It's just a theory, because many of the facts don't seem to fit, but it does seem to have a great deal to do with the audio portion. Like-wise our sync was never consistently off, two frames, twelve frames, eight frames - again, I theorize that the beginning of the m2t originated audio on the edited time line has an open or "broken" GOP and when the software goes to render the final output, instead of syncing to the audio or recreating a new GOP, it seems to "skip" to the first I-frame and begin rendering from there, which results in audio that is anywhere from zero to fourteen frames off the lip sync of the accompanying video.

I hope my "theories" and work arounds help - and if I'm wrong, maybe someone will post a new theory that will give me better ideas for work arounds.

Your Friend in the Business,
Robert Petersen,
Director, All Pro Media, LLC
robert@allpromedia.tv

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 7/22/2007, 11:43 AM
Having seen this same post in several fora, it probably deserves a response.
Haven't had the problem you describe, and I'd venture to say that on any given day I'm dealing with up to 1000 files at a shot in Vegas 7e on a variety of machines for long form work. Currently working three projects with timelines of up to six hours, all shot on HDV and/or XDCAM HD.
On any given weekend, I'll finish sometimes as many as 30 short-form (8 minute) videos all acquired in HDV from a variety of camcorders. Never have experienced this problem. The problem you are having suggests HDD problems or other system configuration problems, IMO. I don't believe it's a Vegas problem.
Videoguy 16x9 wrote on 7/22/2007, 12:15 PM
Hello Douglas Spotted Eagle!
It feels good to get a response from one of the Vegas Gurus! My company switched from Premiere Pro 1.5 to Vegas almost four months ago (three workstations). We have produced over twenty projects successfully so far, all shot with Sony Z1u and FX1 cameras captured as m2t HDV files. Most of the projects went through successfully, but four of our long form projects (all with several months of work into them) have been experiencing this problem as of late. Two of the workstations are P4 Windows XP SP2 2.0Ghz machines. One is a Dual core P4 1.4 Ghz Windows XP SP2. All of our editors use external hard drives (1394 mostly, but the occassional USB 2.0 is creeping in).

We have experienced lipsync problems until we "pre-rendered" our HDV originated audio (once mixed on the time line) to a WAV file and this seems to have stopped the lipsync issues cold.

We have been experiencing the "red screen of death" and black frames, but as far as we can tell only in HDV long form clips around the 55 minute to 60 minute range. Our short form commercials and industrials where we allow Vegas to split up the clips don't seem to suffer the scourge. Tapes captured as one continuous m2t (as are needed for seminars, board meetings, etc.) seem to be the ones causing the issues.

We actually jumped over to 7.0e directly from Premiere Pro, so we never actually ran on 7.0d.

If you could take a moment from your very busy schedule to answer these questions, I would be VERY greatful, as I'm sure many others on the forum will be also. Vegas is absolutely the best editor on the planet. Tried AVID, Premiere, FCP, Speed Edit.... we chose Vegas - we just want to get it stablized.

1. If you think my problem is a system resources or configuration problem and not Vegas 7.0e, where would you suggest I start looking for the problem? Is there a place where Sony or forum users have published recommended settings and configurations?

2. Several users have reported that "rolling back" to 7.0d solved their peoblems, the question is: will we still be able to load projects started in 7.0e if we do this?

3. Someone in another thread mentioned a setting for "quantize to frames", is this relevant, and if so, where do I find the setting?

In advance, let me say thank you for your time. Switching three editors from one software to another as been traumatic enough without bugs that just shouldn't be there. We chose Vegas because it was stable, has a great interface and tools and bang for the buck packs the most power - especially being able to handle HDV clips without the dreaded Cineform transcoding time and hard disc space penalty. Off topic, your training discs and Vasst plug-ins have been fantastic in our migration. Now if we can just iron out a few bugs....

Robert Petersen,
Director, All Pro Media, LLC
Videoguy 16x9 wrote on 7/22/2007, 12:16 PM
Hello Douglas Spotted Eagle!
It feels good to get a response from one of the Vegas Gurus! My company switched from Premiere Pro 1.5 to Vegas almost four months ago (three workstations). We have produced over twenty projects successfully so far, all shot with Sony Z1u and FX1 cameras captured as m2t HDV files. Most of the projects went through successfully, but four of our long form projects (all with several months of work into them) have been experiencing this problem as of late. Two of the workstations are P4 Windows XP SP2 2.0Ghz machines. One is a Dual core P4 1.4 Ghz Windows XP SP2. All of our editors use external hard drives (1394 mostly, but the occassional USB 2.0 is creeping in).

We have experienced lipsync problems until we "pre-rendered" our HDV originated audio (once mixed on the time line) to a WAV file and this seems to have stopped the lipsync issues cold.

We have been experiencing the "red screen of death" and black frames, but as far as we can tell only in HDV long form clips around the 55 minute to 60 minute range. Our short form commercials and industrials where we allow Vegas to split up the clips don't seem to suffer the scourge. Tapes captured as one continuous m2t (as are needed for seminars, board meetings, etc.) seem to be the ones causing the issues.

We actually jumped over to 7.0e directly from Premiere Pro, so we never actually ran on 7.0d.

If you could take a moment from your very busy schedule to answer these questions, I would be VERY greatful, as I'm sure many others on the forum will be also. Vegas is absolutely the best editor on the planet. Tried AVID, Premiere, FCP, Speed Edit.... we chose Vegas - we just want to get it stablized.

1. If you think my problem is a system resources or configuration problem and not Vegas 7.0e, where would you suggest I start looking for the problem? Is there a place where Sony or forum users have published recommended settings and configurations?

2. Several users have reported that "rolling back" to 7.0d solved their peoblems, the question is: will we still be able to load projects started in 7.0e if we do this?

3. Someone in another thread mentioned a setting for "quantize to frames", is this relevant, and if so, where do I find the setting?

In advance, let me say thank you for your time. Switching three editors from one software to another as been traumatic enough without bugs that just shouldn't be there. We chose Vegas because it was stable, has a great interface and tools and bang for the buck packs the most power - especially being able to handle HDV clips without the dreaded Cineform transcoding time and hard disc space penalty. Off topic, your training discs and Vasst plug-ins have been fantastic in our migration. Now if we can just iron out a few bugs....

Robert Petersen,
Director, All Pro Media, LLC
farss wrote on 7/22/2007, 2:42 PM
Quantize to frames is a standard option, make certain it's on when editing ANY video. You can / may need to turn it off when editing audio.

Bob.
bruceo wrote on 7/22/2007, 6:22 PM
"The problem you are having suggests HDD problems or other system configuration problems, IMO. I don't believe it's a Vegas problem. "

HAS to be a vegas problem. I have similar symptoms on 3 machines (capturing, editing, rendering with numerous combinations of RAID, USB, Firewire) and I have a counterpart who recently migrated to Vegas from premiere pro and is now having the same frustrations with 7e
kentwolf wrote on 7/22/2007, 10:36 PM
I know I had some "red frames" a few weeks ago in Vegas and it turned out that the hard drive was failing...and failed.

New hard drive, no red frames.