Reference AVI?

taliesin wrote on 10/3/2002, 8:20 PM

Is there any way to create a reference avi instead of a self-contained one in VegasVideo?

This could be helpful for applications which don't accept files larger than 2 or 4 GB.

In my other NLE - CineStream - I always have the choice of saving a video as selfcontained or as reference file. Would be nice to have something like that in VegasVideo too.

Marco

Comments

Control_Z wrote on 10/4/2002, 1:26 PM

Actually, if any apps still won't take a large file that's _their_ fault. I'm forced to use these steenking things with our DVStorms and I detest them. At worst I'd rather use SCLive to simply capture a series of 2/4G files.

taliesin wrote on 10/4/2002, 6:17 PM

Does it mean we have no way to create a reference file?

Marco

Chienworks wrote on 10/4/2002, 10:03 PM

Can you explain what a "reference AVI file" is? I'm not really sure what it is you're trying to accomplish.

taliesin wrote on 10/5/2002, 4:52 AM

A reference AVI is not a real video file but it pretends to be. A reference file contents only the references to the original. It's like an unvisible timeline or EDL with a kind of "camouflage" to be recognized as one video file.
It makes the file being only some kB in size though the original file might have some GB.
Besides the file size you can't see any difference to a real video file. If you open a reference AVI or reference Quicktime in a media player it will be played back without any problems.
Same way does several apps like TmpgEnc (the MPEG converter). When I was working on Win98 with my second NLE 'CineStream' I always saved my timeline (being bigger than 4 GB) as reference Quicktime being some kB of size only then and imorted that reference Quicktime in TmpgEnc to make it MPEG-1 oder MPEG-2.
'Cleaner', 'Combustion', all that apps imported reference files without problems.
But - sure - you cannot use a reference file out of the system where the original files are located.

Marco

jetdv wrote on 10/5/2002, 8:24 AM

Marco,

Also coming from Cinestream, I initially had the same problem since TMPGenc would not read my full .avi files. Instead, I now use Vegas to do all of my rendering (since I figured out how to make the renders look as good as TMPGenc). Thus far, I have found no way to make an avi reference file.

Edward

SonyDennis wrote on 10/7/2002, 9:49 AM

AVI doesn't do reference files, only QuickTime.
///d@

taliesin wrote on 10/7/2002, 5:14 PM

>> AVI doesn't do reference files, only QuickTime.

Oops, I thought Scenalizer and Premiere can create and use them?

Marco

Control_Z wrote on 10/7/2002, 6:48 PM

I know SCLive doesn't. They specify that when capturing for compatibility with Canopus reference avis you must split the files at 2gb. This doesn't actually create a reference avi though - just a sreies of small avis.

taliesin wrote on 10/7/2002, 7:10 PM

O.k., I see. Thanks for clarification. So this kind of "reference-AVI" is just very similar to what a OpenDML 1.02 conform AVI ("AVI 2.0") is.

How comes real referencing is available in the Quicktime-structure only?

Marco

actvman wrote on 10/7/2002, 7:50 PM

My company writes codecs, and we have written a number of what you are terming reference avis. These are most commonly used when there is an underlying video file format that does not comply with the AVI standard. Our term for the technology is ALIAS, we do it for video and in some cases audio. Our technology does not strictly require that the file be on the same machine as the ALIAS (reference) file. But if the underlying media it is remote, it must be consistently mounted on the local machine.

We typically write codecs that can read and write these files, and often provide a stand alone Aliasing program to create the ALIAS for an existing unsupported file.

The key for this technology is that is is de-referenced by the CODEC and not the application. That application is totally unaware that an ALIAS file is being played/created. The reason this works in QuickTime is becuase the modified their codecs to do it. The same is not true of the vast majority of AVI codecs.

This is a great technology for breaking the 2 GB limit. The ratio is on the order of 100 or so bytes per frame of video. So at high quality this can be a ratio of 100:200,000 Not too shabby.

Recently, SoFo was very helpful helping to work out a problem with one of our Audio Alias codecs. FAST VM/DPR clips (Audio and Video) can now be fully read and written in Vegas 3.

Chris

John_Beech wrote on 10/9/2002, 5:41 PM

Great news Chris!