Removing Echo

MHampton wrote on 3/6/2002, 11:04 PM
Ok, I'm comfortable with the video editing coming from VF2.0, but this audio stuff is new to me.

I'm editing tape from three cameras on a live performance. Vocals are captured on one track of one of the tapes directly from the sound board. Unfortunatley, the instruments (piano, drums, guitar, bass) didn't get recorded there. So on the other two tapes, I have the "room sound" which includes the vocal, instruments, audiance, and ocasionally the sound crew. ;) The sound isn't bad, but I'd like to mix them so the vocals will be more clear. When I do, the echo/reverb is very noticable from the room sounds.

Long story to get to this question. Will one of the controls in VV3 allow me to remove some of the echo/reverb from the two room sound tracks? I'll probably only use one of them anyway and use the vocal track to enhance the singers.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Michael

Comments

Cheesehole wrote on 3/6/2002, 11:51 PM
you want to remove reverb from a recording? sounds pretty impossible to me. why exactly do you want to remove it? reverb is normal when recording live events.

if you are hearing something else, it may be because you are mixing things that aren't quite lined up properly. make sure your different sources are synched perfectly.

if it's really reverb you are looking to eliminate, that isn't possible. make the best of it is my advice.
MHampton wrote on 3/7/2002, 8:37 AM
The strangness comes in when I mix the non-reverbed sound that was recorded directly from the sound board with the live sound from the room. The reason I'm wanting to do that is because the voices are more easily understood from that recording.

You do bring up a good point though. Maybe I should be ADDING reverb to the soundboard recording to match the live when mixxing the two to get the best of both recordings?
Baylo wrote on 3/7/2002, 9:52 AM
I think you are on the right lines with that. It is not possible to remove the reverb from the room-recorded tracks, so add some room reverb to the vocal to help it sit better. If you start to lose clarity when you do this then try to make sure each sound sits in its own space - use panning and judicious use of EQ to help accomplish this.

Hope that helps,

Mark
GaryAshorn wrote on 3/7/2002, 12:30 PM
Also notch the vocal frequency out of the instrument track with the reverb so the vocal has a "HOLE" in the other track to fit better and not fight against it.
MHampton wrote on 3/8/2002, 7:25 AM
(GWA) "Also notch the vocal frequency out of the instrument track with the reverb so the vocal has a "HOLE" in the other track to fit better and not fight against it."

Ok, I was with you guys up to this one. :) I think you are saying, use the vocal track as a filter to help remove the vocals from the room tracks? I have heard of other programs that use "filters" for noise reduction, but I don't know how to do this in VV. Is it do-able?

Cheesehole wrote on 3/8/2002, 12:32 PM
no, he's just saying to use the standard EQ filter as a 'notch' filter on the room track (with all the reverb and noises). you can lower the volume of a narrow band of frequencies to make room for the vocal track to 'sit in the mix'. so you'd want to lower the frequencies that the vocalist is utilizing the most. then when you mix the two tracks, that frequency range won't be as crowded, and the clarity of the vocal track should shine through better.

- ben (cheesehole!)
MHampton wrote on 3/8/2002, 12:57 PM
Gotcha! Thanks

Michael
PipelineAudio wrote on 3/8/2002, 2:22 PM
Like they said " EQ "

First are you SURE that the different tracks are lined up correctly ?
Phase will be a MAJOR player in clarity of these multimiced tracks.

REALLY zoom in close and line the peaks up on each of these tracks. I think you will see a HUGE improvement.

It may not be the actual reverb of the room thats bugging you but the tone of the reverb or room. Try knocking out some level at between 200 to 400 hz and see if that helps.
Baylo wrote on 3/8/2002, 8:18 PM
The information at this link might help you gain some clarity when playing with the EQ settings: http://linux1723.dn.net/forum/Forum11/HTML/001107.html

Mark
Blackout wrote on 3/10/2002, 4:20 AM
of course you can remove reverb from a recording! have any of you experimented with sonic foundrys noise reduction? you sample a small section of the recording that is almost pure reverb tail, and then apply that against the recording. Basically you pretend that the reverb is "noise" and it removes it! its pretty amazing....but dont overdo it as you will get some serious artifacts, eg the bird chirping sound. Use mode 3 for best results.

dg.
MHampton wrote on 3/10/2002, 11:06 PM
Thanks for all the ideas. I know I have a lot to learn in the audio areana, but y'all have given me a good start.

Thanks
Michael