Good Lord DSE - I think you are almost answering these questions before I'm posting them!

Thanks a ton as always - I'm checking it out right now

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=959 is the Sony address

Well no luck. I uninstalled the previous connect HD, rebooted and installed the one from the Sony site and tried to render again - it gave up at the same spot. I've tried rendering from different parts in the timeline but it keeps crappin' out at about 240 megs - what is rendered works fine and I could even export it too the camera - I was just hoping I could get more of it at a time :(

Here's more info:

Problem Type: Crash or Bug
OS: XP Professional
CPU: Intel Pentium 4
CPU Speed: 2.4GHz
CPU Configuration: Single
Main Memory: Dual-Channel DDR SDRAM
Memory Amount: 1024MB
Video Drive: Dedicated single video drive
System Usage: Dedicated Video Capture/Edit Workstation
Camera/Deck Model #: Sony HVR-Z1
Motherboard Manufacturer: Intel
Motherboard Model #: Intel D845 Pesv
Graphics Card Model #: Nvidia geforce2 MX/MX 400
Product Name: Connect HD v1.5
Version #: v1.5 (from Sony site)
NLE Version: Vegas 5.0d build 194

Any other ideas? Thanks a bunch,
Yoyodyne

Is there anything processor intensive at that particular point in time? Can you try pre-rendering that area to the YUV codec or uncompressed and see what happens next?
Your system surely can manage this, I'm just wondering if there is a difficult or bad piece of media challenging you.

I don't think it's an area or piece of media cause I've tried rendering in different spots along the timeline (basically rendering out the 6 min piece in 240 meg chunks) and no -matter where I am or what clips Im rendering it craps out at about the same file size. It is a little wierd - no other odd behavior other than this.

I'll try rendering something else out to m2t and see what happens...

stay tuned.

O.K. - good news, wen't to a "known good project" and rendered out a huge chunk of m2t - all is good. This was a regular dv project so now I'm going to render my HDV project that's made up of Cineform clips to uncompressed and from there try to render to m2t (as per DSE's good suggestion).

and...stay tuned...

and the bad news...

rendered out the project as a long Cineform codec file and as a Sony YUV file. They rendered out fine. Wen't to render each of these out as a m2t and got the error message again at about 220 megs for each file.

I've now started a new project from scratch on a different drive, imported the Cineform file and am now trying to render that to m2t.

Oh, and I got a response back form Cineform (rather quickly - thanks guys) but alas it is not much help. They say that the render component is Mainconcept and Sony's world and they don't have an answer...

....Well poo, just got the error message again. My last three renders have failed at about 216,300 KB. Anybody have any ideas?

Just an update - re-installed vegas - still no luck. Have tried rendering out from sony YUV in the new project and it does the same thing. The only difference is the file size is smaller before I get the error message and the render stops.

I'm going to sleep and will be able to spend more time sleuthing this out Thu and Fri - Would love to hear any suggestions (no matter how crazy they seem).

thanks a bunch,
Yoyodyne

another update. Just tried to render a DV project to Mainconcept mpeg 2 codec and I got the same error message about 120 megs into the project so it sounds like the Mainconcept encoder is having some kind of problem. This was after playing out an hour and half show to tape with no problems at all so Vegas shure seems o.k.

I went to Windows update (have just upgraded to Service pack 2 to get the Z1 to be recognized and meet the requirements for Connect HD) and windows downloaded a few more little things - mostly security related but there was one about possible system hanging that this update was supposed to fix. Got my fingers crossed.

If all else fails I'll go back to my restore point before Service pack 2 or just go to a ghost back up.

While this seems unlikely given some of your other test results, have you done a dust bunny patrol on your CPU heat sink and fan?

That, or any problems with RAM, throughput, etc? The conversion to M2T is definitely processor intensive, as you've already found...Drives all in good shape?

Thanks for the reply. I thought of that- but temps are good - I'm hitting 39 to 40 C at %100 cpu load, way into the green and voltage seems good too (I'm monitoring with Intel Active Monitor utility).

I've done a bit of digging around and it looks like Adobe has a mpeg 2 encoder problem with a fix from both adobe and microsoft. It is package 886716 from the Microsoft Windows update site and it fixes a problem with the mpeg 2 encoder and Windows Service pack 2 not getting along.

I did install package KB887742 which says it addresses an issue that could cause my system to stop responding if certain firewall or antivirus programs are installed - I have no firewall or antivirus other than what came in Service pack 2 but I got a feeling thats what they are talking about. I'm going to run another test now that I have installed pack KB887742 so stay tuned...

DSE, everything seems ship shape on my machine...I've been using different drives, veg files, media, etc and still the same error message...

Well adding package KB887742 didn't do anything - exact same error message...

Just for the heck of it I installed package 886716 from the Microsoft Windows update site that addresses the adobe mpeg 2 encoding issue, I guess we'll see what happens....

This is an interesting thread and it sort of, kind of, sounds like what just went on yesterday.

First of all - I am not bringing in (Capturing) any HDV so I am only speaking of the render part. I decided to do a test in Premiere Pro with render speeds for HDV. I updated to 1.5.1 and it contains sort of an "LE" verison iof the Cineform codec..only usable in premiere Pro so they say. In the process of testing this I find out nothing is actually rendering out - I mean it does "render", but nothing is "recorded" to disk. NaDa - Zip, nothing. Still have not figured this out and can't find any sort fo info directly related to 1.5.1 and this. I also have the MC Mpeg Pro for Premiere installed so I did a render with that...fine, no issues. So now I decide to try the new CineForm AspectHD 3.0 demo. I download and install.

Now here is where things get weird. I output a render to M2t via the Cineform codec - it goes pretty fast. I also output via the "Avi" codec. Works fine - at least one time. For the heck of it I go to Vegas and am going to do a comparison via the MC Mpeg 2 output using the like setting for HDV. Suddenly I get a codec pop up saying that the Cineform trial has expired. I did not know what I installed would affect Vegas - but it did. I had to click "OK" several times and when the "trial expired" pop up finally went away a Vegas pop up came up - that there was no codec insatlled to handle the output. I check the Mpeg 2 output settings and it is from MainConcept, so I get a bit nervous.

So I go back into Premiere Pro - now I get the same error message I got in Vegas. The Cineform trial has expired. Nothing works Cineform related. So I do some looking and I find some info about having to go into the "Adobe Media encoder" portion, something I admit I have not done before because I assumed it wa sonly for DVD output...that plus I use the MC Mpeg Pro encocer mot of the time - so I open it and this too is MainConcept. Also there are Cineform settings as options. According to the little info I read it said to output for HDV you needed to choose the DVHS setting - so I choose that and get an error saying that "Adobe Media Encoder needs to be activated." I had no idea it needed to be, didn't need to be in 6.5 - but I follow the steps to activate, actually very easy ones, and it is fine.I try again - get the "trial expired" error again. So now getting a bit frusterated i do searchis all over - I find an update called "Adobe_Media_Encoder_PPro1.5_Update_v1.1.exe" which I download and install. Also the XP SP2 fix that was mentioned above. I still get the "Cineform trial expired" erorrs in both Premiere Pro and Vegas. So I look around on my hard drive for installed files - I find a Cinefrom folder that has codecs in it along with a folder called "Gradients". Thing is this folder has an *.inf file in it. I open that file and it is - *gasp* - CineForm CFHD Video Codec install. A VFW driver!! So now it sort of makes sense to me. The VFW codec somehow overwrites default decode/encode settings for MainConcept...of at least that is what I was thinking.

So I do a bit more looking, go back to Vegas - in the AVi export, under compressors, sure enough I see listed a Cineform HDV codec - So I choose it and try an AVI - same thing. Same "trial expired" message. So I copy this folder over to another drive and I uninstall the AspectHD 3.0 for Premiere Pro demo. Now things work again in Premiere Pro. No added optins for the M2t output - but now the "Adobe Mpeg Encoder" works - sans any Cineform settings however. Go back to Vegas and Mpeg 2 export works fine - no errors. Also no VFW listing for any Cineform codec.

But now - here is the fun part. I go to the copied folder and I install the Cineform VFW driver. Slowly I go into Premiere Pro expecting the worst - and low and behold I now have the Cineform codec there with no errors. Open Vegas - export AVi - choose the Cineform codec - no problems, renders fast. So it isn't the codec that causes the issues - it was something else related to the 3.0 install.

Now the question is could I capture HDV material via this codec? I have no way of testing - maybe one of you can do this and see if it works. But it seems like I have the Cineform codec for "free" it shows up as the decoder in Media Player Classic when I play the HDV files. So it is decoding as well as encoding...and it *not* only for Premiere Pro.

Now one other thing I discovered in all this - I can capture DV material and uprez "realtime" to HDV via capture with the MainConcept Mepg pro codec in Premiere Pro. I dunno what prompted me to do this but I chose the MC Mpeg Pro cature option, picked the HDV 720p setting and there was my video coming in from my JVC SR-VS30. So I just captured a bit. No dropped frames and the resulting file was HDV. Course the aspect ratio was off - but still - very cool glitch, if it is a glitch?

Still the troubling part in all this is how installing AspectHD 3.0 for Premiere screws with Vegas. This is not a good thing. Beyond that none of this might happen if you ar enot using the demo version - but the demo is the full version, you just need to buy it and activate it - so I mean it seems you would only be getting rid of the "Cinefrom trial has expired" message, not the actual "screwing with Vegas" part.

Anyone else want to take a stab at testing this?

Thanks Filmy! Very informative, you have given me a few new things to try. I figure it has to be either Service Pack 2 or Cineform that screwed things up because they were the only changes to the system. My first hunch was Service pack 2 - not to mention that Cineform seemed to think it had nothing to do with them according to their email. It could be that Mainconcept and Cineform don't get along in some cases?

I have uninstalled Cineform stuff and am trying to render my Sony YUV version of my little project to m2t. I can no longer play the intermediary codec on the timeline (of course) but I'll report back and let you know how things go.

Thanks a ton for the help and suggestions everybody!

and...stay tuned....

...and no go - still got the same error message. Think I might try and reinstall Vegas?

With Cineform, there are two versions. One uses their own decoder, and the Vegas version, which uses the Main Concept decoder. Vegas needs the M/C to work correctly/quickly.
You can certainly try a repair install of Vegas, but I don't think that'll get you anywhere. Has Thad gotten back to you yet?
From what I've seen only the full version of Connect HD ignores the M/C stuff, and uses it's own resources. Something in your system certainly seems corrupted, wish I had a better answer. I've forwarded this thread to the boys at Cineform.

Thanks a ton DSE! Thad did contact me and here is his response:

"The m2t export from vegas is a purely vegas feature. That exists even without connect HD installed. Youll have to contact Sony Pictures for more info about it as the mainconcept components that are doing that work are not ones we have control over.

Thad H.

CineForm Support"

They were very quick to respond - in fact I have yet to hear from Sony tech support - and I agree that whatevers munged up is not the Cineform app. My guess is that the Mainconcept mpeg 2 encoder is screwed up some how and I'm not sure if it was Service pack 2 or Cineform. I'm running out of ideas to trouble shoot & I'd love to figure this out before I go back to my restore point (or ghost image if that fails)

Thanks again for all the help everybody!

>>>With Cineform, there are two versions. One uses their own decoder, and the Vegas version, which uses the Main Concept decoder. Vegas needs the M/C to work correctly/quickly.<<<

And when thi swas going on I did read threads around here and saw that you had said this before. But that still didn't/doesn't explain why installing the AspectHD 3.0 demo for PPro would mess with Vegas. And if it *was/is* the VFW codec why is it fine once you uninstall the package? The Vegas version may use the MC encoder but what about the new 3.0 version for Premiere? Does this as well? From what Yoyodyne says Cineform is saying not so - only Vegas does this.

But I swear I did not do anything to Vegas other than open it and try to render out. Somehow the Cineform codec for Premiere got into Vegas.

>>>The m2t export from vegas is a purely vegas feature.<<<

I just had to re-read this...now I am even more confused. If you install the AspectHD 3.0 demo for PPRo, direct from the CineForm site you will get an option in PPro to export m2t. So it is not purely a Vegas feature.

Also, I did some more looking around - the PPro update to 1.5.1 adds a folder called "HDV" and it contains, among other items, MainConcept codecs. As far as I can tell the 1.5.1 update for PPRo mainly is a HDV update that "includes" a basic Cineform codec for HDV. So the folder also has about 8 Direct Show codecs from CineForm but the rest, about 19, are all MainConcept MPG codecs. Between Adobe, Sony and MainConcept I seem to have these same codecs all over my system now.

Example - I can open up the codec options window is a program *other* than PPro or Vegas and I get options such as:
MainConcept (Adobe Encore) MPEG (NOTE - I do not have Adobe Encore installed - this must be the same codec that Premiere uses)
MainConcept (MCPro Plugin) DV Video
MainConcept DV Pro Video Encoder
dv25_MainConcept ProDV Codec
dv50_MainConcept ProDV Codec
MainConcept ProDV Codec 3.0.1.6

Now I also have:
CineForm (Adobe) HDV Encoder
CineForm HD Encoder
CineForm HD Codec 1.2


Now within Vegas 4 I only have the MainConcept, built in, option for MPG but under AVI output I do have the AVI codecs listed as well as the CineForm HD Codec 1.2

I did *NOT* have any Cinefrom options in Vegas (or eslewhere) prior to installing the PPro 1.5.1 update. Since I uninstalled the AspectHD demo I can only deduct that it does something with the VFW codec that causes a conflict with Vegas because the issue went away. But, again, I don't think a product for PPro should show up as an option in Vegas (or other programs) or any other program.

Hey Filmy - how are you opening "up the codec options window is a program *other* than PPro or Vegas"...

I'd love to check what kind of codecs I have installed but not sure how to do it except through Vegas. Thanks a ton for all the sleuthing - this is either a huge waste of time or very interesting :)

... why is nothing ever easy?

I also have been unable so far to create an m2t in Vegas. I have bought the Cineform/Sony HD Link, but apparently this is not used for transcoding to m2t, just for outputting the result back to tape. This is what I'd like to do with a 3 1/2 min project already finished on Widescreen DVD, so I have a HDV version I could show from the camera.

Using the1080 - 50i MPEG2 template, it seems to be rendering normally, but before completion I get "An error occurred while creating XXXX - Reason could not be determined."