Rendering Workflow

fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 9:42 AM
I'm going to try this myself when I canm but right now everything is tied up rendering for what looks like another 8 hours.

Background - For a church service, The files is 54 minutes long. first 30 seconds is intro with a bunch of Broll and Titler Pro titles. The rest is one camera shoot with a bunch of lower thirds. It is taking between 8-10 hours to render. I'm rendering to ,mp4 for internet. I've matched the project, file, and render fps and both are 48k audio.

1) Is there a quicker way to render ?
2) in the future, would it make sense to render that intro seperately (just change the titles) and then incorporate that file into the main render file ?
3) Can Vegas 14 have a "Nap" function to wake me up when the render is completed ?

Comments

OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 9:51 AM
@fosko

What is your complete system spec? Rendering to MC AVC or Sony AVC can be greatly reduced with GPU acceleration with the right hardware. On my machine I render AVCHD 1080 60fps at around 3x realtime speed to MC AVC 1280x720 30p.

Another "trick" is to disable resample on all your events but it very much depends on your source footage too.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:05 AM
Don't know if this is overkill...copied it from NVidia utility.

In addition I am running Win7 64 bit Home on a Dell XPS 8100 i7 CPU (870@2.93 GHz) with 8gb RAM

NVIDIA System Information report created on: 09/09/2014 11:00:00
System name: WHOPPERHAVEN

[Display]
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-bit (Service Pack 1)
DirectX version: 11.0
GPU processor: GeForce GT 630
Driver version: 340.52
Direct3D API version: 11
Direct3D feature level: 11_0
CUDA Cores: 96
Core clock: 830 MHz
Shader clock: 1660 MHz
Memory data rate: 1400 MHz
Memory interface: 128-bit
Memory bandwidth: 22.40 GB/s
Total available graphics memory: 4095 MB
Dedicated video memory: 2048 MB DDR3
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 2047 MB
Video BIOS version: 70.08.AD.00.34
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16 Gen2
Device Id: 10DE 0F00 26373842
Part Number: 1071 0008

[Components]

NvGFTrayPluginr.dll 15.3.33.0 NVIDIA GeForce Experience
NvGFTrayPlugin.dll 15.3.33.0 NVIDIA GeForce Experience
nvui.dll 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdsync.exe 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdplcy.dll 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdbat.dll 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdapix.dll 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
NVCPL.DLL 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvCplUI.exe 7.8.760.0 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvWSS.dll 6.14.13.4052 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvViTvS.dll 6.14.13.4052 NVIDIA Video Server
NVMCTRAY.DLL 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA Media Center Library
nvDispS.dll 6.14.13.4052 NVIDIA Display Server
PhysX 09.13.1220 NVIDIA PhysX
NVCUDA.DLL 8.17.13.4052 NVIDIA CUDA 6.5.12 driver
nvGameS.dll 6.14.13.4052 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server
OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:19 AM
@fokso

What is your source footage? 1080? 720? HDV? 30p? 60P? 60i?
Which render template and settings are you using?

Your system is a bit on the lower side to expect fast render times. The GPU has only 96 CUDA cores and128-bit memory interface which wont help much.

Try disabling resample on all your events and see if the resulting video is still ok. Here are tow scripts that will do exactly that.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39278380/Disable%20Resample%20All%20Events.js
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39278380/Enable%20Resample%20All%20Events.js

You first select all events and then run the disable resample script. To undo the procedure use the enable script the same way.

You can use a test project with about a minute of your footage and see what the difference in render speed is.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:33 AM
The Source is 1080/30p. I was wondering if I should switch to 24fps ..or even standard def. since it's basically an indoor lecture.. not a lot of movement or action. Just the speaker pacing back and forth.
fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:36 AM
LOL
My original card had 16 CUDA with 64bit and only 512 mb memory. I thoughyt I'd made a space age jump.
OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:39 AM
@fosko

If you are in the US get a GTX580 from eBay; it will change your system dramatically.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 10:54 AM
I recently went up to a GT 630. Is the 580 better ?
OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 11:14 AM
The GTX580 is one of the best you can currently get from Nvidia for Vegas. This has been discussed over and over in this forum; the newer 600 and 700 series Nvidia cards are not well supported at all under Vegas 11 up to 13.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 11:26 AM
Thanks.. I'll keep a look out for one.
Arthur.S wrote on 9/9/2014, 12:58 PM
" Can Vegas 14 have a "Nap" function to wake me up when the render is completed ?"

Vegasaur has options to send an email, shut the PC down, play a tune, etc when the render has finished.
Chienworks wrote on 9/9/2014, 5:02 PM
#1 - I've been using Handbrake for a lot of my MP4 production lately. It's way faster than Vegas and produces a noticeably crisper image. Of course, Handbrake isn't an editor, but it does appear to have the ability to join pieces together, so you could use Vegas to edit the things you need like the intro and the few sections of lower thirds, then let Handbrake assemble them and encode the output.

#2 - By all means! Use a lossless codec, or uncompressed AVI, or at least something with a very high bitrate.

#3 - I believe i've heard there's a script out there that can beep or do other things when the render completes.

Couple thought points:

A) - It's FAR more important to match the render template to the source than the project template. Project template has almost zero bearing on the rendering process. If you're finding that your render template doesn't match the source then this alone is probably the single biggest reason for the render to take so long.

B) - Someone mentioned disabling resampling. While this isn't a bad thing, if it does help then one of two things needs to be addressed:
- i - your render template is wrong and this is slowing down rendering, or
- ii - you actually should be using it! but the first thing is really what you should be working on.

C) - I tend to do these sorts of renders after hours and overnight. I don't really care how long they take or if i'm notified when they're done. Usually they're ready for me in the morning. If it finished 5 minutes before i checked, or 5 hours, it doesn't matter to me.
fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 8:16 PM
I was really kidding about the nap thing. I do have Vegasaur. And, like you Cheinworks I generally render at night. Last night I rendered before I went to bed. Got up... still 4 hours left (this file isn't even an hour long). Today I stared render at 11am...went to an NPR taping of Afro-Blue (incredible accapella group,,you should check them out) got home and what do I see.. Render didn't finish because of an 'unknown error' so now I have to start all over again. Hope this works this time because I told them I'd deliver a draft tomorrow. Going to try some of these suggestions and hope they work.
Byron K wrote on 9/9/2014, 9:01 PM
"Handbrake isn't an editor, but it does appear to have the ability to join pieces together, so you could use Vegas to edit the things you need like the intro and the few sections of lower thirds, then let Handbrake assemble them and encode the output."

This is very interesting. Has anyone done this w/ Handbrake?
OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 9:37 PM
@fosko

the GTX580 is a bit power hungry and you will need a 750W power supply in your PC.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Chienworks wrote on 9/9/2014, 9:50 PM
I haven't tried pasting pieces together specifically with handbrake, but i have encoded sequential .VOB files into a single output file. It does have a feature to open a folder and select multiple files in that folder. Should be worth a try.
fosko wrote on 9/9/2014, 11:32 PM
Is there a utility that will tell me what my power supply is ?? or do I have to open it up ?
OldSmoke wrote on 9/9/2014, 11:38 PM
I don't know of a utility that can do it unless you have a power supply that supports it like Corsair's own Link Utility. Opening the case might be faster.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

astar wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:54 AM
Are you rendering in BEST, Good, or Preview? Have you tried a lower setting to see if that renders faster? The quality differences might acceptable, the weekly gospel may not need BEST.

You could try a series of test renders with no effects, then add effects one by one until you determine the slowest addition.

You could try renting an XDCAM-EX camera and see if that speeds up your renders, as you should get smart rendering from that format. If shot well and no overall correction applied, you simply only render titles and transitions then. Handbreak the MP4 XDCAM output. If your drives are fast like SSD, the smart render should be faster than realtime, and Handbreak should be able to do at least realtime on the mp4 encode. That should get you to about about 2:1 maybe a bit longer. The best GPU you can afford will speed the actual vegas rendering up the most, GTX580, HD5700 or R9 270, 280, or R9 290, or Firepro W5000 or W7000.

fosko wrote on 9/10/2014, 12:01 PM
Well here's where I am:
I didn't run the script because ... I realized I didn't know how and it was 2:30am when I got back to my computer. But I did see that I was getting messages of running out or memory and disk space. I rebooted, freed up about 50 gb of space and then rendered using the Main Concept MP4 Internet HD 720p template and changed the Encode Mode to CUDA if available (don't ask why... I don't know). Rendered and went to bed.. when I woke up all was done and well. I think it took about 6 hours. Now I'm uploading to YouTube and that's taking about 3 hours.

I'm considering a few things:
1) recording in Sd instead of HD. It's a sermon not Batman. I'm guessing that will help.
2) I have 4 basic sections... the intro..the sermon (single camera)... the lower 3rds.... the outro. I'm going to do those as seperate files and render them together. If there is for example a type on the lower 3rds (as there was this time) I'm thinking it will take less time to render that one .veg file and then put them all together than itake 8 hours to change one word. The intro and outro should be pretty standard and not really change. I'll experiment with this in the near furure.
Steve Mann wrote on 9/11/2014, 1:08 PM
Is there a utility that will tell me what my power supply is ?? or do I have to open it up ?

No. there is no intelligence or feedback to the CPU. It's as dumb as a light bulb.

If you bought an off-the-shelf PC like from Dell or HP, then the power supply it came with is barely adequate. If the manufacturer calculates that your PC will need 590Watts max, then they will install a 600W supply. They assume that you will never open it up to change anything or add memory, drives or GPU's.

I would recommend that you spend a little more and go straight to a 1,000 Watt PSU and be future-proofed. Next year when you build your hex-core PC you will already have a sufficient PSU.
fosko wrote on 9/11/2014, 9:18 PM
I'm going to look into that. Will more power help my render speed ? (one can only hope)