Renders stuttering - footage check requested

gabgilson wrote on 6/19/2024, 2:18 PM

Hi. I've got an odd problem where renders of footage from my new DJI Mini 4 pro come out with stutters in every few seconds. Renders with shots from an Autel Nano+ drone don't have the stutters. Same timeline. I've also tried a DJI mini 3 pro, and it does the same thing. If I play the original DJI files outside of Vegas, they don't stutter. I've checked framerate, and everything matches. I've tried using Happy Otter Render+ and still does the same thing. V21-315

I'd be super, super glad if anyone has the time to check if they get the same result. There's a copy of one of the drone files in the cloud folder here (and a copy of one of the problem renders so you can see what I'm on about:

https://icedrive.net/s/iWhZWYxwWGj35uuuzaXQ6jX53tQB

I'm on windows with AMD 5900x and 6700xt. Many thanks for any thoughts on what's going on.

Comments

gabgilson wrote on 6/19/2024, 2:25 PM

OK, found a fix. Switching on 'Enable experimental HEVC decoding' fixes the stutter. So no worries about checking the footage, but I'd still be glad if anyone has any thoughts on what's going on?

Just trying some other EDLs with Sony A7siii footage and noticed that switching on 'enable experimental HEVC' means it ignores all my proxies generated with that setting off. I guess that's just an unavoidable byproduct?

Todd-AO wrote on 6/19/2024, 5:52 PM

It sounds crazy but they broke H.264 in VP21 and nobody noticed so now they're fixing H.264 bit by bit with every release. If you wanted to use the standard decoder you can re-encode using this setting in Shutter encoder. Note I change the profile to high 6.1 that's necessary for the file to work in current version of Vegas

RogerS wrote on 6/20/2024, 12:11 AM

switching on 'enable experimental HEVC' means it ignores all my proxies generated with that setting off.

That's a weird behavior a few of us found a year or so ago. Not sure why this is the case but yes, the proxies aren't used if you switch settings.

The file name says h264 but you talk about HEVC which is h265. That setting would have no effect on a h264 file. I downloaded the footage (painfully slow- took an hour) and it is h264. The old decoder for h264 is selectable with "legacy AVC decoder."

Using Mxcompound (not the legacy so4compoupnd decoder) I advanced frame by frame through the timeline. Every certain number of frames there is a repeat which would likely make it look like it is stuttering in the render. This may be due to the framerate (23.976)

My suggestion would be to "enable legacy AVC" or do any future edits in VP 21.208 as there are a few issues like this with Mxcompound.

General
Complete name                  : mini 4 pro h264.mp4
Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : Base Media
Codec ID                       : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                      : 437 MiB
Duration                       : 30 s 72 ms
Overall bit rate               : 122 Mb/s
Frame rate                     : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                   : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Writing application            : DJI Mini4 Pro
Cover                          : Yes
snal                           : (Binary)
tnal                           : (Binary)

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : High@L5.2
Format settings                : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, Reference fra : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP           : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 30 s 72 ms
Bit rate                       : 120 Mb/s
Width                          : 3 840 pixels
Height                         : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.601
Stream size                    : 429 MiB (98%)
Encoded date                   : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Color range                    : Limited
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709
Codec configuration box        : avcC

Other #1
ID                             : 2
Type                           : meta
Format                         : djmd
Codec ID                       : djmd
Duration                       : 30 s 72 ms
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Title                          : DJI meta
Default                        : No
Alternate group                : 5
Encoded date                   : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC

Other #2
ID                             : 3
Type                           : meta
Format                         : dbgi
Codec ID                       : dbgi
Duration                       : 30 s 72 ms
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Title                          : DJI dbgi
Default                        : No
Alternate group                : 5
Encoded date                   : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2024-06-19 16:50:02 UTC

gabgilson wrote on 6/20/2024, 1:51 AM

@RogerS Thank you so much for taking the time to check it all. Sorry for h264/h265 confusion. I tried filming clips in both formats on the drone to see if that would help (it didn't). I uploaded the h264 clip for checking as that wasn't filmed with D-log M and is easier to view. I've checked again this morning, and as you say it needs enable experimental to solve stuttering in the h265 clips, and also enable legacy AVC to solve them in the h264 clips (I hadn't tried that last night).

Sounds like going back to 21.208 is the simplest solution - or I need to recreate all my proxies or just switch 'experimental and legacy' off for preview and on for render!

v21 315 has been the most stable version for me of all time I think - no crashes for weeks at a time - so I'll be sad to have to go back to 208 with its daily crashes.

Anyway, glad to have the info so I can make choices depending on the workflow at the time.

Thanks again.

PS Sorry for slow download. Icedrive is usually superfast up and down in the UK, but maybe not elsewhere.

Gid wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:03 AM

@gabgilson Hi, I tried your clip & didn't get so much stutter, that's with default File IO settings, different PC's maybe.. 🤷‍♂️

You say the frame rates match but the orig is 23.97fps & the one that has the stutter is 24.00fps, also the one with stutters seems a bit washed out?

& these two aren't the same file? I can't get frames to line up ?

-------

PS. my download here in the UK was under a minute, I didn't time it 🤷‍♂️

gabgilson wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:11 AM

Thanks @Gid for helping check. Here's what I've found so far for info - and apols for muddying the testing - I was mixing up h265 (dlogM) and h264 shots from the drone as they both showed the render stutter for me. As RogerS points out above, it needs 'enable experimental' to solve h265 stutter and 'use legacy avc' to solve h264 stutter!

Agree about frame rates - I tried rendering at both 23.97 and 24 thinking that might be it, but it made no difference. Looks like I grabbed a 24fps from the h265 footage to show as a stutter example but I put up an h264 orig drone shot as that wasn't in dlogm so seemed easier to share.

Normal for me, complicated way to learn a lot of info, but at least I have workarounds to try!

Todd-AO wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:12 AM

I've checked again this morning, and as you say it needs enable experimental to solve stuttering in the h265 clips, and also enable legacy AVC to solve them in the h264 clips (I hadn't tried that last night).

Sounds like going back to 21.208 is the simplest solution

I"m not seeing the duplicate and missing frames with the HEVC 10bit footage from Mini Pro 4 I have, it behaves normally unlike the AVC version, is it possible to upload that somewhere or too big?

Would be good to check your video with next Vegas release.

RogerS wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:12 AM

Personally I'd recommend sticking with 208 (I went back to it) as while 315 has some nice performance and stability improvements there are also odd decoding issues like this, not quantizing to frames, not reading full range metadata and more that each require workarounds as well as speech to text being less than functional. I'm sure it will all be addressed with VP 22.

Icedrive may not have mirrors in Asia while Google Drive is solid globally.

gabgilson wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:25 AM

I've checked again this morning, and as you say it needs enable experimental to solve stuttering in the h265 clips, and also enable legacy AVC to solve them in the h264 clips (I hadn't tried that last night).

Sounds like going back to 21.208 is the simplest solution

I"m not seeing the duplicate and missing frames with the HEVC 10bit footage from Mini Pro 4 I have, it behaves normally unlike the AVC version, is it possible to upload that somewhere or too big?

Would be good to check your video with next Vegas release.

Hi. I've put one of the shorter h265 clips in that same folder - if you're UK download should be speedy. https://icedrive.net/s/iWhZWYxwWGj35uuuzaXQ6jX53tQB Much appreciated to check if there's anything odd with the file. My first thought was the new drone had a problem, that seems unlikely after all the other tests, but great to check. I'm due on a shoot in sunny Swindon later today, going to risk taking the mini4!

Todd-AO wrote on 6/20/2024, 3:40 AM

That file certainly shows the problem, thanks for sharing. I'm sure your drone is fine, Has pauses in Vegas but smooth in other editor.

RogerS wrote on 6/20/2024, 4:01 AM

If you want to check the drone files just go frame by frame in a video player (I use MPC Black) and see if any are duplicates. I am sure the drone is fine though didn't test it.

I did the same test in a player and VEGAS with another file someone uploaded and found the same duplicate frame issue in VEGAS.

Gid wrote on 6/20/2024, 4:08 AM

@gabgilson Yep tried that HEVC one, yep I see some stuttering & can't really add to what has been mentioned 👍

gabgilson wrote on 6/21/2024, 5:22 AM

Had a follow up problem where vegas wouldn't let me turn off the legacy and experimental check boxes so I couldn't use any proxies created with them off, but restarting with 'ctrl + shift' to clear the cache has sorted that. Adding comment in case anyone else gets this far!