Routing Question for * Peter *

PipelineAudio wrote on 11/11/2002, 11:54 AM
Im not getting any answers that I need in the other thread, so I was hoping on asking it again, and let all the insults stay in the other thread.

If I want to route a track unmolested to a channel using the pan-law that doesnt change the volume when panned left or right, what is the proper way?

While we were talking about pre or post fader bus fx you mentioned they had to be post in order to have the dither working correctly. Will this matter for single tracks? Is there any dither on at 24 bits anyway? And is there some place to control whether dither is on or off as I'm almost always working in 24 bits anyhow.

Now, if you didnt code this APP dont bother responding, I am looking for information not insults.

Also, if I still want to send this track to an internal effect, because of the pan, it will only go to the side of that effect that it is panned to. Is there any hope of getting a dx plugin that just sums stereo to mono so at least we could have mono effect sends that work? Better than that would be a way to choose mono outputs just like on the inputs.

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 11/11/2002, 12:24 PM
This is a PUBLIC user forum. If you have direct questions to Peter, then why don't you address him directly in an Email? This is the place where "USERS" help each other. It is NOT YOUR private forum, where YOU think you can get direct technical support. Obviously, you can't figure that out on your own. You can find Peter's email under his user profile....but I'll make it even easier for you, since it's obviously difficult for you to figure this out on your own. And BTW, I already answered your question, CORRECTLY I might add.

peterh@sonicfoundry.com
Angelic_Records wrote on 11/11/2002, 12:29 PM
HE GOES LOOKING FOR YOU AND TROUBLE, HUH PIPELINE?
why don't you stop this crap, rednroll?
everyone is tired of your stuff, and if they're not,
I'M GONNA MAKE 'EM SICK OF MINE, CONDEMING YOU!!!!
MyST wrote on 11/11/2002, 12:38 PM
I vote for a free 15 minute call from Peter to Pipeline. God know he deserves it!
I hope you get your answer SOMEHOW.
PipelineAudio wrote on 11/11/2002, 1:54 PM
Stupid me, I figured there may have been more than one person who coded this app that could answer, so a single e-mail to a single programmer might not be as productive as asking all of them at once.

Stupid me also thought that maybe the whole forum could benefit from the answer, so I posted it here

it was specifically NOT adressed to Rednroll, he can have the other thread he ruined
Rednroll wrote on 11/11/2002, 2:00 PM
Stupid you shouldn't have addressed the topic as: "Routing Question for * Peter *"
Stupid you should have sent an email to :"support@sonicfoundry.com" instead.
Stupid you is the only one who didn't understand the correct answer that I gave to this in the "user forums", which is a "peer to peer" support group and NOT Sonic Foundry programmer support....that would be "support@sonicfoundry.com". Yes!!! Stupid You.
PipelineAudio wrote on 11/13/2002, 12:38 PM
ok any hope of ever getting this answered?
are these secrets that cant be revealed? I can unserstand they might be sort of
RikTheRik wrote on 11/13/2002, 2:57 PM
Sorry, I am interested by the answer too.
I have not written myself Vegas and have no idea of the internal processing.
RikTheRik wrote on 11/13/2002, 2:58 PM
Maybe is Rednroll working in Sofo and they want to hide these details 8-) ?
edna6284 wrote on 11/13/2002, 4:11 PM

You're starting to alienate yourself, Rednroll. You've got credibility here. Ease up and join in productive discussion.
Sari wrote on 11/13/2002, 5:37 PM
Right click on the pan slider. Now choose " Balance (0 dB center) "
pwppch wrote on 11/13/2002, 10:08 PM
Use Constant power setting. This will send a mono source to the left or right channel on a hard left or right pan with out any pad.

(You can prove what you want by generating a sine wave in Sound Forge and loading it into Vegas. You can then see the results of any gain stages.)

Ideally, dither should be done after all processing, just before conversion to fixed point for rendering to the hardware or to a file.

We do all processing floating point. The "implied" dither is done at the last stage when we convert to the desired fixed point. (I know, not really a dither, but a bit reduction.) When you use a dithering plugin it processes in Floating Point as well. It processes input in floating point such that the conversion to fixed point will produce an expected result. If you added a gain stage after the dither plugin (thus being pre fader) then this gain stage could change the results of the dithering. That is, any processing done after the dither can effect the results of the dither.

We are looking at the possiblities of allowing mono feeds to FX. There are a number of routing issues that such a situation creates that we have to look at.

Peter

Arnar wrote on 11/14/2002, 3:54 AM
Phew****... I decided to delete what i had written here as i dont want to sink to your level Rednroll .

Suffice to say that the hassle that you create is starting to FAR outweigh the benefits of having you around.
Rednroll wrote on 11/14/2002, 9:28 AM
Really, sink to my level? Seems like I was the first one to answer this question correctly in the original post. Why don't you try stepping UP to my level one time and answering a question instead of asking them all the time?

Here remember this post over a week ago to the original question? What do you know, it's almost EXACTLY what Peter said, and I'm not even a VEGAS programmer. Wow!!! I wonder how I did that? I suppose because, I know about digital audio and how to verify that a signal is what it was originally at and I also know the golden rule of recording to route signals through the shortest path? The proof is in the puddin as they say Arnar.

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=135251&Replies=37&Page=1

"Well, since he said "Track 1" I'll assume it's a mono track....either case it's the same...Set the channel fader to 0dB....do NO panning, leave it in the center....just route it to Bus A, which will be outputs 1/2. Equal level of the mono track will be sent to both outputs 1 and 2 "unmolested"....remove all plugins on the channel and the bus...make sure your bus A fader is also set at 0dB. Make sure you're "project sampling frequency and bit depth is set to the same properties of the original .Wav file. If you want no signal sent to output 2, then goto the bus and ungroup the faders and pull output 2 down. That will give you the most "unmolested" path. If you really want to use the panning then you will need to pan hard left and lower the channel fader to -6dB. Virtually Input equals output if you're going through a digital output.

Oh almost forgot the new Pan feature's in Vegas 3.0. You can also do a hard pan to the left if you select the "Constant" power pan control and can leave the channel fader at 0dB, thefefore "unmolesting" it from a fader adjustment if you use the default "add channels" pan option, which would make you have to reduce the channel fader -6dB as I previously mentioned."

Arnar wrote on 11/14/2002, 10:32 AM
I dont doubt your technical skills for a second but you need to work on your social skills.

See, this is what bugs me ....Im sure that you are an asset to this community as you seem to know your buisness , but...its the constant attacks on other people that i simply dont understand???

Honestly!! you might have a good reason??? did Pipe bug you to bits??
I have no idea???

But you must be able to see it from my standpoint.
I see a new post from Pipe and the first reply is you hassling him...Why on earth??
and thats not counting all the other posts where i have seen you hassling someone.

In fact i have seen more posts from you hassling someone then actually helping, obviously i might have missed all your helpful posts but this is how it looks to me and frankly it makes me wonder how helpful you really are.

granted i havent been around very long on this forum but this behaviour just amases me and you must realise that there are probably countless lurkers and users as well that see you in this negative light....or what???

Again...personally i have nothing against you and your´e probably a very nice guy but you certainly dont seem like one judging from some of your posts.

i hope you reconsider your attitude..

Cheers mate:)




JoeD wrote on 11/14/2002, 11:59 AM
<<Why don't you try stepping UP to my level one time and answering a question>>

Ahh, cork it.
You're a bore and an idiot. Snap out of it will ya?

Anyone who has any skills the nature of which you speak DOESN'T HAVE TO PRONOUNCE HIS OWN PROWESS REPEATEDLY. It'll be understood. Learn that and you might stand a fighting chance.

Until then, if I need any tips on how to make that comet swirl around some overindulged, asswipe yuppie's minivan sound system...I'll call ya.

JoeD
PipelineAudio wrote on 11/14/2002, 1:22 PM
Thanks a ton peter!, I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth.

I guess I've been doing it right all along, but just wasnt sure. Its seems right and intuitive to just zero it out like this, but you just never know what kind of math is going on so I had to ask, not being a programmer myself and not specifically being a Vegas programmer.

how about just a dx plug for starters called " mono to stereo " or something, where it just picks left or right and sends it to both or better yet, pan on the fx send, until mono busses can be worked out