Roxio Shuts Down its VideoWave Board

p_l wrote on 9/28/2002, 1:00 AM
As of September 27, 2002, Roxio has shut down its VideoWave Board. True, it was not flattering to its product, but it is an inherently defective product. Like many of you, after struggling for months with VW, I came to realize through the help of the people on the board that I wasn't the only one, and problems were not just of my doing, but were inherent defects. We tried all kinds of workarounds while waiting in the good faith hope that MGI, and then Roxio, would fix infamous problems like audio synch, unreliable burning, etc., etc. Finally, when it became clear that Roxio was just going to keep on selling this defective software in version after version without fixing it, it was through the great interaction of some of the board members that we started exploring alternative software, and many of us came to the conclusion that Sonic Foundry's VideoFactory and Vegas Video were the way to go.

Partly out of a desire to hurt MGI/Roxio in the pocketbook just as they had hurt me in mine, but mostly out of a genuine desire to help unsuspecting VW users and to point them in the direction of quality video editing software, backed up by a knowledgeable and helpful forum and regular participation by helpful Sonic Foundry staff, who actually care about making a good product even better, I embarked on a small mission of sorts last winter. Since then, I have included a hyperlink to VideoFactory in my signature on the VW board, and posted EVERY day. I had over 650 posts until they shut down the board yesterday. I wanted word to get out: VW is defective. Get good software like VF/VV.

It is now widely accepted. In just about any discussion of VW, unflattering comments are usually followed by exhortations to excise it from your system. Initial favorable reviews in computer magazines and cnet-type sites notwithstanding (in return for advertising revenue, one has to wonder?), VW is no longer a "player." "It coulda been a contender," to paraphrase Marlon Brando, but through Roxio's neglect and dishonesty, it is now generally regarded as a joke. It has now disappeared from the shelves in Canada's Future Shop, the largest national retail computer chain. I hope it does so elsewhere around the world too. Roxio's stock price has plummeted from an annual high of $25 to $3.

Now, as much as I would be delighted to lay claim to single-handedly wiping out VW and bringing Roxio to its knees, this was the inevitable outcome of free-market forces. When I was 12 years old, I decided to take up an offer in the back of a boy scouts' magazine to sell seeds and greeting cards door to door for pocket money, because the ad said, "they practically sell themselves!" Well, VW practically unsells itself. VF/VV, on the other hand, will surely win out on their own merit, because they are good products and well supported. However, if I played a small role in accelerating the process and helped a few people along the way, I'm glad. I've certainly learned a lot and wish to thank those who have helped me so much along the way.

Roxio did put up a cheaper, harder-to-find, harder-to-use replacement forum with no linking features - Gee, I wonder why... ;)

http://www.roxio.com/en/support/roxio_support/discussions/index.jhtml?_requestid=33199


Maybe see you there from time to time. But if you're reading this, you're already with the good guys.

Comments

Stiffler wrote on 9/28/2002, 9:28 AM
Great post pl!

The sad thing about VW is that they package that garbage software with anything they can, especially Dell computers.

I agree with your post. It is too bad that beginners just getting into NLE have their first expirence with VW. I wish I would have heard about Sonic Foundry before I bought a Dazzle capture device packaged with VW. After I got my first camcorder, I dreamed about editing video on my computer. Finally I got a capture device (DVC-80). I spent sooo much time trying to get VW to work, but it failed and I almost gave up. Thanks to Vince, pl, Lody, and many others...now I'm a HUGE fan of Sonic Foundry.

My suggestion to SF is to go to Dell, Gateway, Sony, Cannon, and package VF (LE) with all of their products. VideoFactory is the product that people should first be introduced to.

I'm just a home user, but I'm so happy with Sonic Foundry, that I am now a share holder of SOFO.
Stiffler wrote on 9/30/2002, 3:46 AM
pl, did they edit some of your posts on the new area?

I just noticed that you can 'edit' old posts.
p_l wrote on 9/30/2002, 4:22 AM
No, not yet. I've edited some of my own for typos because I'm such a terible speler.;) But I notice your two attempted posts didn't come out. There's some cryptic message about a syntax error involving the "'s_" in your member name, so try again with a new sign-in name or identity to see if that solves it.
laz111 wrote on 9/30/2002, 5:42 AM
Nice post, p_l and I agree wholeheartedly. It was people like you and Stiffler who pointed me in the right direction when steam was spouting from my bald pate whilst struggling with VW, and I'm grateful for your kind intervention.

The ironic thing is that Roxio's GoBack is a very good product (probably the only one - but can't be downloaded outside US or Canada).
Simmer wrote on 9/30/2002, 11:20 AM
Yes. I got Roxio with my Gateway and had very disappointing results!

Thanks to this forum I found a great product.

I was (and am still in many ways) new to the world of Video Editing.
Thanks to this forum and a good product, I am now just beginning to catch on.
I E-mailed Gateway, warning them that if they truely want to avoid a "bad name" due to inclusion of VW in their upper-end PCs, they should consider switching to Sonic Foundary products.

I havn't seen any change yet though. Sad. :-(

I am never really happy when I see a company suffer. But in this case with Roxio and VW, I feel relieved, mostly for the fact that new comers like me to the video editing world will be spared the headache of dealing with such a misleading and frustrating product as VW.

Whew! I feel better now. :-)

-Mike
cococoop wrote on 9/30/2002, 12:45 PM
I know many won't like this take on this subject ,,, BUT ,,, I must be honest. Everyone must remember that VW was first produced by MGI ,,, NOT Roxio ,,, and ,,, if you followed any of the MGI news letters ,,, it was MGI that cut all the deals with the Gateways and Dells etc..... With that said ,,,, Roxio has made a significant stab at fixing it's product ... I personally beta tested the Roxio Movie Creator which was released this Fall ... I feel they have fixed the audio synch issue and the burning I attempted worked .... Unfortunately, I feel they didn't listen to their consumer, and the Movie Creator Product is a step backwards rather than a significant improvement over ver. 5 (I do like many of the 3D transitions that they have included in the MC product) ,,, (I have not seen or tested the "Videowave Power Edition") ,,,,,

As many know, I was a significant contributor to the VW forum ,,, I did not leave because of the VW product, but rather because of the posts themselves.... it is my opinion that many of the posts were from people who could barely function with a word doc, let alone NLE .... it was these posts which frustrated me to leave, because the users issues were more damaging than the softwares issues ,,, (Example ,,, " I can't get this to work, can someone help" ,,,, with a signature like NevUsedPuterB4) ,,, I write this tounge in cheek,,, but there were some as rediculous as this ,,,,

The out of synch issue caused me to search for another NLE platform ,,, and initially I spent the $ to purchase Edit Studio ,,, But ,,, also downloaded the VF2.0 demo and started playing ,,,,WOW ,,,, the power of this package was unbelievable ,,, I have since purchased the "Digital Video and Audio Production" textbook in anticipation of upgrading to Vegas. I still keep Movie Creator on my computer for those 3D transitions.

I would question whether Video Factory should be bundled with Gateways or Dells ,,,, Sonic foundry might be setting themselves up for the same user that has no clue what NLE is about ...

Just my opinion ,,,,
p_l wrote on 10/1/2002, 12:06 AM
cococoop,
In many ways I have to agree with you, and believe it or not I feel a little sentimental about VW too, and I've still got it on my system. That said, we should remember that that's how it's marketed, as an entry-level NLE - the box makes that clear - so you have to expect the type of post you describe. Everybody has to start somewhere, so it makes it all the more galling that MGI/Roxio would knowingly take advantage of the unsuspecting neophyte. Yes, MGI created the program, but when Roxio bought it up, they should have taken on responsibilty for it, not just keep on selling it in its broken state, laughing all the way to the bank for the first several months. This is especially true if they worked out the audio synch bug in the Movie Creator version, as you say they have. IF they did indeed work that out, the very least they could have done was to use that knowledge to issue an audio synch patch right away to all the long-suffering users of other versions.

As it stands, perhaps it was all a blessing in disguise though, if it led us to where we are now, here. And those of us who went through all that have an added sense of appreciation for good software.

SF's win-win strategy, I think it's quite clear, is to use VF as a kind of "NLE 101" to introduce more people to VV, and it works because their entry-level product works quite well, in fact will be more than enough for many the casual user, and doesn't scare off the potential VV customers, quite the contrary. Many people would have never tried or perhaps even heard about VV if it weren't for VF. Among today's freshmen and other undergrads are some of tomorrow's grad students. On the other hand, I suspect many of VW's freshmen have just dropped out altogether.
RandyHastings wrote on 10/1/2002, 12:25 AM
Count me among the many grateful ex-VW users who learned of Sonic Foundry's superior products through the VW forum. If Roxio put as much effort into fixing VW as they do into promoting it, then their product could possibly be something worth touting.
Lody wrote on 10/4/2002, 3:24 AM
Hi PL, so it's back to the VF board then :)

As you know I am one of the people who switched, and by God I tried to make it work.

Anyway, for now the posts can still be read you just cannot post, have you seen any official messages that they shut down the board?

At least we have something to fall back on.

Lody
p_l wrote on 10/4/2002, 4:45 AM
Hi Lody!
There's a message on the first page where you choose which MGI/Roxio forum you want to go to which says they've been relegated to "Archive - Read Only" status, and elsewhere they've indicated that they'll be up only until the end of the year. But now they've got a new, cheaper forum up, and lo and behold who showed up there yesterday: two Roxio people. :o Their help suggestions weren't exceptionally insightful, certainly not of the caliber you get here, but, hey, it's a first, so let's give them some time. It still doesn't fix what doesn't work in the product, though.

http://www.roxio.com/en/support/roxio_support/discussions/index.html
dr_video wrote on 10/8/2002, 9:34 AM
Apparently Roxio is monitoring their VW forum not for the purpose of helping the victims of their software, but in order to censor all criticism of their inferior product. In their post (copied below), they threaten to ban p_1, (who has been more helpful to VW forum users than Roxio ever will be),from their forum because his signature refers to Sonic Foundry and Ulead software.

Copied from the VW forum:


Hi p_l,

Please remove the referral to other brand name software from your signature . This post is not intended to give you a hard time. Roxio intends to keep their discussion forums purely for providing technical support and to provide knowledge for product usage.

We intend to remove all unnecessary remarks that either slander Roxio products or non-Roxio products, or promote other manufacturers products, or simply discussions that have absolutely no relation to the Roxio products.

So again, please remove from your signature on all future postings the mentioning and referral to other brand name products. Failure to do so from this point, will unfortunately mean that your account will be under review for possible action of being banned.

Regards,

Lee
Roxio Customer Service and Support
Lody wrote on 10/10/2002, 7:51 AM
It surprised me that Roxio has tolerated it for so long. Just proved to me that they didn't even look at the forum or didn't know what to do with it.

At least now they have set up a new forum and are showing some interest for their users (not that they have any solid solutions). The damage for VW has been done anyway, most serious users (read: users who just want the thing to work) have switched anyway, of which a considerable number to vf or vv.

Let's give them a chance to see if they change their act. I think Roxio is strugling with the heritage of the company they bought, but are well willing.