Same File Size? - 1280x720 vs 640x480?

DLCPhoto wrote on 10/4/2009, 5:36 AM
I have an SR11, import files into Sony VMS9b Plat. Pro Pack, everything works fine. The project is done at the original native 1920x1080 resolution of the SR11.

I normally render to .wmv for YouTube posts, with these Video settings:

Save As Type: Windows Media Video V11
Windows Media Video 9 Format
1280x720 pixel resolution
Bit Rate VBR (Peak)
Average Bit Rate 4.50M
Peak Bit Rate 5M

The most recent 3.5 minute video I did came out at 129,695 KB. Uploaded to YouTube. Looks/works fine.

I have a new Verizon HTC Touch Pro 2 (480x800 WVGA). I tried to play some of the same format files I've done before (CorePlayer) and it's not real smooth, with many missed frames. For that reason, I decided to try to render at lower resolution, using the exact same settings as above, except for resolution:

Save As Type: Windows Media Video V11
Windows Media Video 9 Format640x480 pixel resolution
Bit Rate VBR (Peak)
Average Bit Rate 4.50M
Peak Bit Rate 5M

This renders fine, with the file size at 130,085 KB! Nominally bigger.

Why would this be? The resolution has been dropped considerably, leading me to expect a much smaller file size. I haven't transferred it to my TP2 yet, so don't know if it'll play better, but I'd really like to understand what's going on here.

Anybody know?

Also - any recomendations for Rendering for optimal playback on my WVGA Touch Pro 2, Windows Mobile 6.1, with CorePlayer?

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 10/4/2009, 6:25 AM
I know exactly why, and you do too. You just don't realize it yet.

Save As Type: Windows Media Video V11
Average Bit Rate 4.50M <-- ahha!
Peak Bit Rate 5M
Average Bit Rate 4.50M <-- ahha!
Peak Bit Rate 5M

The file size is determined completely by the duration and the bitrate used. No other factors play any significant role at all. If you want a smaller file, use a lower bitrate. Resolution, frame rate, codec, etc. make no difference.
DLCPhoto wrote on 10/4/2009, 6:49 AM
Very interesting, Chineworks - thanks!

It's obvious once you point it out, but as I deal mostly with still images, I always 'focus' on the pixel resolution as the primary factor. Not so with video!

Given this, what would you suggest as a workable Bit Rate for optimal playback on my Touch Pro 2?

And based on what you're saying, there would be no reason to reduce the resolution, in terms of file size, but I imagine there would be in terms of how my device will scale the image for its display. Would switching to 640x480 help, or would it do just as well at the original 1280x720?

Thanks again!
Chienworks wrote on 10/4/2009, 8:07 AM
Not having any idea what a Touch Pro 2 is i would be remiss if i made specific recommendations.

I can give you some general concepts. Keep in mind what the physical resolution of the device's screen is. I have a phone with a resolution of 360x240 and a pocket video player with a resolution of 320x240. Assuming i'm going to be watching on those devices, rather than connecting them to a larger display, any frame size larger than those resolutions is not only a complete waste, but actually a drag on system resources that can cause playback to stutter.

Now, keeping in mind that a smaller resolution might be better than larger, also realize that more resolution needs more data and less resolution needs less data. Encoding 1280x720 at 4.5Mbps will end up with more artifacts and quality loss than using 640x480 at the same bitrate. Fewer pixels means that the same bitrate can do a better job with better quality. So for that reason also the lower resolution is a better choice.

Personally, on my pocket player, i generally use 320x240 for 4:3 material and 320x180 for widescreen, and encode at 256Kbps at 14.985fps. The refresh rates of the screen aren't as good as a computer monitor or TV so the lower frame rate doesn't matter. It also means the player only has to do half as much work which often leads to smoother playback than 29.97 would anyway. And, since there are only half as many frames, 256Kbps maintains twice as much quality as encoding at 29.97 would.

256Kbps isn't much. It's considered pretty low ever for web quality these days. On the other hand, the screen i'm watching it on is only 3" so the quality loss isn't noticeable. That bitrate also allows me to store hundreds of hours of video on the 30GB drive. It's sufficiently entertaining so there's no need to waste space on a higher bitrate.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/4/2009, 9:01 AM
DLCPhoto,

Everything else being equal, a 640x480 video at 1.5Mbs ABR should retain the same relative encoding quality of a 1280x720 video at 4.5Mbs, and will occupy 1/3 the disk space.

Notice I said "relative encoding quality." The resolution of a 640x480 video is only 1/3 that of 1280x720, and that cannot be made up by increasing the bitrate.

A common mistake is as follows:
Does a 640x480 video contain twice as much information as a 320x240 video?
The answer is "No, it contains four times as much information." Any good fifth grade student (and Jeff Foxworthy) can tell you why this is so.
DLCPhoto wrote on 10/4/2009, 1:11 PM
Appreciate both of your comments and suggestions. Based on that, I'll play around with resolution, frames/second and bit rate and come up with something useful.

(And just to clarify, the device I'm using is a Verizon Smartphone, the HTC Touch Pro 2 - Windows Mobile 6.1, with a 3.6" screen running at 480x800 pixel resolution. I have some movies that I previously encoded from DVD several years ago, for my Palm TX, and they look just wonderful on this display, playing quite smoothly, with excellent resolution.