Saw my own HDV footage... I'm Horrible!

jrazz wrote on 8/25/2006, 3:52 PM
Okay, I got my 42" Samsung HDV TV in today. I got it all set up and we get 3 OTA channels with only PBS being 1080i, the other 2 are 720p. It is amazing the detail that can be seen. After being amazed for a while I decided to hook up one of my A1's and watch some footage I shot. Man, I didn't realize that I was that bad. You can see every mistake from color to focus to contrast, etc. Now granted, I do not claim to be a great cameraman or anything, but when I watch the same footage on standard def, it looks great, on HDV, it looks less than desirable. I am going to have to rethink shooting for HDV and be that much more intentional at what I do as it reveals the flaws with how I did lighting, how I prepped the talent, how I do_____.

When I do weddings (which I do mainly) I do not get to control a lot of these variables- any ideas on getting the best shoot for HDV output when you do not have control or a chance for a second take? I guess it comes down to knowing your camera and getting a lot of good time in on it as well as understanding your surroundings.

Also, any good recomendations on a good upconvert DVD player? There are several at Best Buy, but I don' t just want to buy one, I want one that will make the standard def DVDs look good on the HDV TV.
Thanks guys.

j razz

Comments

richard-courtney wrote on 8/25/2006, 3:58 PM
One reason I have waited on HDV. With my poor eyes and shakes from greying hair
I would have to hire a focus puller and bigger LCD monitor....
farss wrote on 8/25/2006, 4:33 PM
You are not alone with this. Many people are being caught out. It's not just that you're shooting in HiDef, you're also shooting in 16:9 which even in SD poses a new set of challenges.
Plus those with HD playback will have better sound gear (no, I know, not necessarily good) so your audio also needs to take a leap quality wise.
I suspect for those shooting weddings a lot of the old practises will have to go. As you've noted it's very hard to get so many thing right given the time pressure. Better kit apart from the camera will help and I could think of nothing better to start with than good tripods, you need legs that are rock solid. Since most of our clients have switched to HD there's been a marked increase in demand for good tripods, 12 months ago they just wanted any tripod, now they want the good gear.

But apart from better kit I think doing a good job of shooting a wedding in HD probably means needing more than one camera, having better coverage gives each cameraperson enough time to get the shot setup right.

Also of course all the HDV cameras are significantly less sensitive, so the need to add more light is there. That can be a real challenge, you can squirrel a camera away in the back of the church to keep the celebrant happy but there's no easy way to hide lighting.

The other issue I see is a belief that shooting HiDef means nothing more than buying a new camera and working out how to edit the footage. Jobs are priced accordingly i.e. the same as for SD.

Bob.
fldave wrote on 8/25/2006, 5:34 PM
How do you have your camera connected to your TV? I use my FX1 connected via firewire to my 65" Sony TV.

What is the resolution of your TV? I assume 720p. My TV is 1080i.

My footage looks great. Not like from an $80,000 camera, but I'm impressed. Most of my footage is static on a tripod, though.
[r]Evolution wrote on 8/25/2006, 5:52 PM
Most of my footage is static on a tripod, though.

More than likely... that's the key.
Handheld shots are just Shakey by nature. Even the Big Hollywood movies that shoot handheld use SteadiCams to remove most of the Shakiness.

I would say get a light weight Tri-Pod and start trying to use that. Even a MonoPod may help when you're in Tight Places.

jrazz wrote on 8/25/2006, 10:35 PM
How do you have your camera connected to your TV?

I have it connected via composite as my TV does not have firewire as an option.

What is the resolution of your TV?
It is 1080i.

As for shooting, most is done on sticks while I experimented during the last wedding with a monopod that I have been doing some test shots with. I find it more flexible for just about every shot and if you use it in conjunction with the "steadycam" feature, it makes for a nice "handheld- 24" type shot.

As for being impressed with the footage- I am impressed with the possibilities of what I can do with HDV. I just need to get there and from the looks of things, I have a long ways to go :)

For the record- I never go "handheld"; all paid jobs are done on sticks. Too messy without them.

j razz
Spot|DSE wrote on 8/25/2006, 10:44 PM
There is not a composite connection for HD. You mean component (3 cables/RGB)?

What is it specifically you don't like?
Also, if you're on sticks, be sure that OIS is turned off on your HDV camcorder for the sharpest image.
farss wrote on 8/25/2006, 11:25 PM
Well there is a composite output from the HDV cameras but it sure ain't HD and worse due to the way a lot fo HD screens handle the SD composite signal it can look pretty horrid no matter how good the source.

However given what the original complaint was about I'm kind of thinking DSE is right, it's a component connection!

I'd be a tad nervous about using monopods with HD. One of subtle traps with 16:9 is not getting the shot level and the only real way to do that is with a tripod with a level, I now always have one of those ex eBay LED torches in my kit just for checking the bubble on the head.

I've been caught out with this 'level' thing. Just slightly offset from the centre of the stage and with the tripod dead level the edge of the stage isn't level with the bottom of the frame so I adjust the head to get it level. Ha, subtle mistake. The perspective in the shot tells the eye it's not dead centre but the horizontals say you are. Subtle and wierd effect on the eye.

Re the OIS thing. Only yesterday we had two guys shoot their first ever video on a A1 (one's an actor, the other a producer, neither ever used a camera). Good sticks, good wireless mic, a couple of lights, just a talking head at a talkfest. ONLY thing we forgot was to switch the OIS off for them. Looked great, sounded good. Except for when someone walks near the camera, the floor had plenty of spring in it. The effect of the OIS and HDV compression looks really wierd, almost like a frame was being dropped here and there.

Bob.
frazerb wrote on 8/26/2006, 5:58 AM
I have had a problem switching OIS off (SD or HDV). If the tripod is placed on a not very sturdy floor (such as the back of an auditorium seating element) the whole thing can shake when people move about. Telephoto shots amplify the jitter.

Buddy
jrazz wrote on 8/26/2006, 8:59 AM
Yeah, sorry about that, I meant component. The red, green, and blue. Isn't it amazing how one little word can change the whole thing?

Also, the footage I was reviewing was some footage I shot of Minor League Baseball at the Nashville Sounds and the Jackson Diamond Jaxx for a documentary. The guy I am shooting for wants it in 4:3 and standard def to match his other footage, so I was going to downconvert and print to tape.
The Nashville Sounds stadium I think was built on springs. They had plywood flooring except for right behind home plate. Everytime someone moved, the floor would move. Even being up top in the bleachers did not make a difference as someone 6 rows down would shake the cam. So, I did film with OIS to help reduce this.

The main thing I don't like is a catch 22. The detail. In Standard Definition, I never noticed some of the things I am noticing now- which shows things that I don't always have control over. On the other hand, the detail is also a very good thing and now I can be more aware of what to look for and know my problem areas.
Standard Definition allowed room for more leadway in camera settings (or at least that is what I tell myself) so you don't have to get it exactly right. Take focus for example. I use manual focus for weddings due to the lower light levels in sanctuaries as well as the flicker of the candle flame reaking havoc with the AutoFocus. Due to my main jobs being weddings, I opted for the A1's due to size. It would defeat the purpose for me to by a monitor that is bigger than the camera just so I can make sure I am really in focus. When reviewing some wedding footage I shot, I noticed that it was soft. Not too out of focus, but soft. I am just going to have to train my eyes better and really rely on the expanded focus of the A1.

j razz
Serena wrote on 8/26/2006, 7:30 PM
>>The main thing I don't like is a catch 22. The detail.

Greater definition is the reason for HDV; just a bit closer to the real world. SD is fuzzy anyway which, together with greater DOF, allowed the tolerance in focusing that you like. It's unfortunate that video cameras don't provide viewing through the lens (which enables accurate focusing), but that's how it is. You might wish to play around with the techniques of zooming in to focus (plus expanded focus) but make sure your lens holds focus when you zoom back out. One of the things with weddings is that things can look better with soft focus and glow, but it is a bit awkward when the focus plane is obviously somewhere else. HDV does give a lot more flexibility for cropping etc when your output is to DVD (SD). So you're right: just need to be careful.