I decided to render a larger test video (40 minutes playing time) using both default DVD templates, once making a AVI to be trancoded using the included watered down version of DVDit that came with the HP DVD burner I bought and a second version using the MC DVD MPEG-2 codec which Ulead's DVD Movie Factory can handle since it don't come with any encoder.

The former won't allow chapters unless I first record to my camera, then input back into my PC and recode again under which condition the watered down version of DVDiT will allow setting chapters on the fly if you don't mind watching and sitting on the space bar hitting it where you want a chapter. Don't seem like a very practical method so I didn't try that way yet. So not to confuse. I know DVDit can do chapters better, sadly not with the watered down version that came with the DVD burner.

I haven't burned anything but a very small file just to see if it would play on my DVD set top because the rendering process is taking longer then I thought. Using the default settings even on my very fast AMD 1900+ the rendering to a MPEG-2 took 22 hours 16 minutes. The quality looks very good just taking a quick peek off the PC. The AVI version is still rendering and won't be ready for many hours. The file size for the MPEG-2 version was just under 1.3 GB prior to doing any chapters which I'm guessing will add some overhead.

So based on that it looks like 40 minutes will take up about a third of the DVD disk more or less using the default variable bitrates.

Here's something interesting, it seems (haven't tried yet) that Ulead's DVD Movie Factory will also do SVCD's, even VCD's with chapters. Oh alright, not true chapters, but it will apparenly set break points and thumbnails. When I get a chance and pick up some more blank DVD +RW media I'll see if it can encode SVCD's to the DVD +RW media with variable bitrates. If so, probably could get around 4 hours of lower quality onto a single disk.

Update...

It is now a little over 32 hours from the time I started to render a 40 minute DVD AVI file. Finished! Playing back this version and the MPEG-2 version I rendered earlier on my PC using VCDCutter to do a side by side real time test showed little different in quality. Rendering times for both were very long. The MPEG-2 version took 22 hours, the AVI version a little over 30 hours.

Test results are incomplete. Trying to burn to a DVD using the watered down version of DVDit included with the HP 200i DVD burner were very disappointing. While it had no trouble opening the VV3 created file (NTSC DV template using default settings)it hung repeatedly after only a minute or two of trying. To be more precise, neither the software, Windows (XP) or hardware hung, as in a lock up, rather a status bar showing progress only got as far as a couple steps then simply disappeared off the screen with no warning at all. DVDit then allowed me to click on other buttons in the application, a sure sign it gave up or just stopped... without any visual clue at all. In fact this is such a bare bones version of DVDit you get no feedback at all. For a wizard type application, this is primative to say the least. While the full versions of DVDit may be good, this very crippled version isn't very good unless you are going direct from a digital camera. Maybe, I doubt if I'll even bother trying.

Much different story using Ulead's MovieFactory. $44.95

In a word, I'm impressed! While DVDit will trascode a AVI file, MovieFactory requires a ready to go MPEG-2 DVD compliant file. Actually, that's probably a plus since you can use Vegas Video's rendering and set your options as you want them (variable bitrate, constant bitrate) and not have to worry about the DVD burning software encoding at a lower bitrate and messing up your hard work.

Simple, fast, intuitive. A true wizard interface with plenty of hand holding. Very simple to set up as many chapters as you want. All that is required is to click within the application's preview window as the video plays and click the "add" button wherever you want to insert a chapter. A thumbnail is created instantly and added to a on screen area to the right. You can add descriptive titles, pick from a limited assortment of templates, add a audio to the main menu, etc.. Afterwards you can preview and test the chapter points prior to burning the DVD.

The burning process is a six step procedure, fully automated where the necessary files are created without any intervention on your part. Just insert DVD media, sit back and watch. If the media already contains data it will ask prior to overwriting. On screen status reports are fairly informative and you see how far along the process is with typical status bars showing progress. Supports 'burn-proof' technology and writes at 2.4 speed (3324 kb/sec.). Total time to "burn" a 40 minute video including the preprocessing to set chapter points took just over 16 minutes total time. Not bad.

Test results playing on a Pioneer Model 333 set top DVD player:

I setup 10 chapters, which under the menu option I used created 4 sub menu pages. No problem using Pioneer remote to jump back and forth between chapters. Overall quality of playback was excellent. One scene that had kids splashing in a river with a rapid current did show some minor artifacts. On a large TV (4/3 51 inch) when viewed at a normal distance not objectionable at all. Of course this is subjective. If you get within a foot or two of the screen you could clearly see the artifacts, however only during the water scene. Otherwise the rest of the 40 minute video was totally free of artifacts including other "action" scenes like a three legged race and volley ball. I didn't have anything in the video to test voice snyc accurately, however I did not detect any problems. When kids splashed in the water or hit the volley ball it seemed to be in perfect snyc. Don't have any 'talking heads' to test better.

All controls function normally:

I was pleased that stop, fast forward, reverse, slow motion and frame by frame worked just like in a commercial release. I had no problems using the on screen menu to jump between chapters or return to main menu.

Conclusion:

If you are going to pick up a 2nd generation DVD burner (so you can burn DVD +RW +R unless you are going to be happy with just burning your DVD as is, then the included software likely to come with your DVD burner, certainly what presently comes the HP will need to be upgraded. While DVDit, may be good in a full version, the watered down 'freebie' that comes with the HP is very under powered and next to useless in my opinion. For the money if you're a hobbyist MovieFactory seems to be a good choice unless you want to get ultra fancy. At least the price is right.

I'll update this thread once I try DVD +R and try burning multiple titles to one DVD. Probably not till some time next week. :-)

Just curious, did you look at the latest Pioneer (A04?) DVD-R burner? I've heard that this is the most compatible DVD burner out. I think they're a little less expensive ($350).

Are there significant advantages to the DVD+R/RW drives? Is the media cheaper? Are they faster? Are they just as compatible to STB DVD players?

Thanks!

Its the typical us against them thinking. Several of the bigger companies, Sony, Philips, Yamaha, HP, some others, developed the DVD +RW format with the +R being a subset of same standard. The first batch of so-called first generation DVD burners from that consortium could handle DVD +RW and a couple (HP and Philips) promised a firmware upgrade once things were settled that would have supported +R however both companies ended up with egg on their face. Neither of these first generation drives supports + R. The only difference between +RW and +R is the first is rewritinable and the second isn't. Thus the media for the second should be cheaper once things settle down.

HP is being pig headed and demanding thosing wishing to upgrade from their first generation DVD drives cough up an extra $100, (class action law suit filed) while Philips will give a free upgrade when they come out early next month. Maybe because they said on the box their first generation drive would sopport +R... it don't, while HP was more iffy.

Like with most things you need to seperate the hype from fact. The main claimed advantage of +RW and +R is the media should play on more set top DVD players. That's the main difference. Older DVD formats are more problematic or so the claim. I don't think there is a DVD yet that supports all the DVD and CD formats. It boils down to what set top DVD player you have and if or not you plan on sharing your creations with friends, or even selling them. Apparently since the +RW and +R formats are newer that probably will get wider support.

It's a LOOOONG story and quite hard to sum it up briefly. Basically:
- DVD+RW is your dream re-writable media, with no "sessions", drag-and-drop, as compatible as possible with the DVD format (Blue Book, IIRC). The problem with it is that it's pretty much the-latest-and-greatest re-writable DVD format and the media is pretty expensive (aprox. 10 $ / one sided 4.7 Gig disc). There are also minor compatibility hiccups due to the low reflectivity (but mainly with > 2 yrs old DVD players).
- DVD+R: Write-onle variant of DVD+RW, with cheaper media and even more compatible (presumably).

All in all IMO DVD+RW and DVD+R are pretty much the best thing avail now w.r.t. re-writable DVDs.

Some links to get you started:

DVD+RW and DVD+R media:
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/resources/media.html

Details about different DVD formats:
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3

DVD recorders and formats:
http://www.dvdwriters.co.uk/

Another short but really good insight about different standards:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21569&cid=2288118

The last but not least I strongly recommend a site w/ knowledgeable ppl about CD-R/CD-RW/DVD/DVD+RW.... stuff:

http://www.cdrlabs.com


P.S. A last note: For quite some time i was pondering about the best media to save my DV footage. After some researching/testing i concluded that: 1) Double-converting w/ lossy compression of DV to MPEG-2 _really_ sucks and is a no go. So there you go video DVDs 2) The avail. solutions for storing DV footage on optical media (as data) are unsatisfactory: the best you could possibly get today is double-sided DVD+RW/DVD+R disc w/ 4.74 Gig per side and you manually have to flip the disk in the recorder. And that is a bit short of 30 mins of DV footage per side :((( 3) Ideally, the best thing would be the avail of Fluorescent Multi-Layer Disk (FMD), with more than 100 gig capacity, but they are using really $$$$ blue lasers and or not here yet:

http://www.c-3d.net/product_frameset.html



All in all the best two options today are: 1) Leave it on DV tapes (doh!) 2) Buy more hard-disks :)

I haven't got time to go into detail like the others (who did a great job, by the way). I'll just say that Vegas and the HP 200i are a really powerful combination. I've been able to get +RW discs at $5.99 and +R discs at about the same less a few cents.

Al

BillyBoy,

I concur with your findings. The Sonic DVDit software is very limited. I am researching an alternative. I have the Pioneer DVR104 and have burned 4 DVD's and have had zero problems (other than the DVDit limitations). So far I have done 3 projects that were nearly an hour each. I used VV to render the .avi file using the default template for NTSC DV. The render time was about 10 hours but it ws a pretty basic video. Mostly cuts and disolves with a few composites thrown in and some video filters to make cameras match. The actual dvd burn only took a couple hours. I will do some experiments with the MPEG routines. I also found that general DVD-r 4.7 disks work fine too. DiscsDirect.com has then for $1.39 each.