Seemlessly stringing video files together?

entilza72 wrote on 8/31/2009, 12:45 AM
Hi gang,

Bit of a long shot here. I find myself backed into a corner due to memory limitation in Vegas ... so here goes:

What I am trying to do:

I have DVD Architect Pro 5. I am attempting to string a series of videos together to make one seemless, long video.

The video consists of:
1. The video itself, split into 5 different files (soon to be more than 10 files).
2. A similar number of 5.1 surround ac3 files.
3. A similar number of stereo ac3 files.

Adding the sound to the video is fine, but DVD Architect Pro 5 appears to be unable to seemlessly splice the videos together.

When I view the video on the timeline, I add the new sound tracks. But any additions I make to the end of the video end up replacing the original video. So I can't do it that way.

So I then tried making the end action to link to the next video. It didn't work.

Finally, I tried to string it all together using a playlist, but the "cut" between videos is exceptionally noticable - almost 1 second. It needs to be seemless as some of these files are split shots during the action.

Why not just string them all together in Vegas?!, I hear you cry!
Well, constant "out of memory" errors on a 32 bit system with over 2Gb of memory *free* (1Gb in use) is what got me here in the first place. The project is both complex, and in 1080p. So I was advised to break the project up into small enough chunks where Vegas would render without fail.

Why not render those chunks out as AVIs and reassemble the chunks in Vegas for output as a single MPG2??, I hear you yell!
Well, I did, but my project has a 5.1 Surround mix. Vegas will not allow me to load the ac3 files.

OK, just nest all the project files into a new project and render that way, someone mutters...
Well, I tried that. Vegas went Missing In Action (MIA) when the first two projects were nested together. It was completely unresponsive. Forget loading the rest of the chunks!!

So, any ideas on how to pull this off, without the big gaps between video chunks, whilst still keeping the 5.1 mix?? Hoping someone has a bright idea!! :-/

Cheers,
Jason.

Comments

TOG62 wrote on 8/31/2009, 12:52 AM
I've never done exactly what you want, but the standard answer to adding video clips without getting a gap when playing back is to put them into a music/video compilation in DVDA. I'm not sure if this works with HD or separate sound tracks, but don't see why not.

Mike
entilza72 wrote on 8/31/2009, 1:23 AM
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the info.

I found that after adding an avi to the "Video Clip Compilation" list you suggested, I could right click and click "Set audio". I could then choose the ac3 file. Confusingly, it renames the file name to show only the ac3 file, but testing shows the video remains. Unfortunately, I cannot set more than 1 soundtrack via this method, but thats not a deal breaker for this particular project.

Checking the playback (without rendering a disc) there is a small gap - a flash of black for perhaps 1/10th of a second. Does that disappear when the project is rendered? Or will I have to live with it? Either way, its a LOT better than a gap of a second!!

Cheers,
Jason
TOG62 wrote on 8/31/2009, 2:10 AM
Hi Jason,

I don't think there should be a gap when rendered. Why not prepare and play back from hard drive to test it?

Cheers
Mike
entilza72 wrote on 8/31/2009, 4:10 AM
Hi Mike,

I tested it to DVD.

There were two problems with the result:

1. There is a noticable gap - the image holds for about 1/2 of a second before continuing.

2. The image quality was poor. The video was very blocky. I chose the lowest compression setting for the "build" preferences at 9.8 Mbps. It was extremely noticable. This may be because of the Music/Video Compilation process, or it may be from DVDA re-rendering from AVI. I'm not sure, as I've only ever given DVDA files that are DVD ready.

I think for my next attempt I will:

1. Make video only and audio only versions of the 5 VEG files by deleting the unused content (be it audio or video), thus making 10 veg files.
2. Render each of the 5 file segments as video only AVI's
3. Reassemble each rendered AVI into a full length DVD-ready video-only MPG2.
4. Nest the audio-only projects together and render a giant complete version of the audio.
5. Compile the complete video and audio files in DVDA

I believe that this, whilst extremely labour intensive, will allow me to work around the constraints of:
1. Running out of "memory" (supposedly) in vegas
2. Not being able to load ac3 in vegas
3. Not being able to seamlessly stitch together segments in DVDA and end with a "quality" result.

I'll post the results back - it may take me a few months though (LOL).

Cheers,
Jason
entilza72 wrote on 8/31/2009, 4:55 AM
*penny drops*

The above is a great idea, UNLESS Vegas treats a nested project's surround sound elements in exactly the same way it treats AC3 files ... ie, not at all?

If anyone knows, I'd like to hear before I embark on a long test process!

Cheers,
Jason.
entilza72 wrote on 8/31/2009, 5:04 AM
Sadly, I was able to easily confirm my suspicion, thanks to the surround mixer. It clearly showed the surround levels were all uniform. Vegas treats nested surround projects as a mono signal.

Any other suggestions on how to combine video and ac3 surround files end-to-end but in a way that they don't "pause" or "gap on DVD??

Cheers,
Jason
TheHappyFriar wrote on 8/31/2009, 6:04 AM
if you have all the veg files then do what your next idea was: render each veg out to an AVI. Then render all your audio veg's (why separate???) out to 6 channel WAV's. Then put that all together in one large project & render that to mpeg-2/ac3. should be pretty darn quick.
darkframe wrote on 8/31/2009, 2:21 PM
Hi,

1. There is a noticable gap - the image holds for about 1/2 of a second before continuing.

The gap is normal when adding single clips to any DVD authoring application. It's just how DVDs work. In descriptive words: At the end of a clip the player is leaving the VOB currently playing and is reading the IFO file to see what to do next. In your case the IFO "tells" the player that another clip is to be played back hence a jump back to the VOB takes place (including searching the new playback position). Then playback commences. As that all needs time, especially regarding hardware players (re-positioning of the laser), you'll notice a gap.

The only way to overcome this is to render all clips into a single video file as if they were a movie. You can add markers (chapter points) so that you would be able to start playback at a certain position.

Well, I've read about the trouble you had with your project. Hmm, I'm not sure about your 5.1 AC3 problem. What I'm suggesting now is basically the same as you're saying but starting with a question: Can't you - in the first place - export your audio to 6 channel WAV?

What I'm trying to say is: Export the videos to single AVI files with no sound and save the audio part of each into an extra 6ch WAV (uncompressed) instead of AC3. You could as well render out to AVI with 6ch WAV included. Then load the AVI and the audio files into a single project (or only the AVI in case sound is included). Now, here's the important part: Export the video part as MPEG2 (without audio) and the audio part as AC3. Both files should have the same name as otherwise DVDA might not load the AC3. That should do the trick. Regarding adding a second audio track I've got to confess that I'm not that familiar with DVDA.

What I'm not understanding is #1 of your five points list. What do you mean by "deleting the unused content"? Did you, in your first attempts, keep content which you didn't actually need? Why would deleting parts of a Veg result in two files? I'd say that you're doing something wrong here or I simply do not understand what you're saying.

Cheers

darkframe

Edit:
:) The monk has been quicker and didn't need that many words :D
entilza72 wrote on 9/1/2009, 12:43 AM
*slaps head*

Of course! 6 Channel WAVs. Or at the *very* worst, 6 x 1 channel WAVs if I REALLY have to fudge it.

Great idea guys - I love you all! :-)

To answer why "delete the unused content", this problem is existing because of memory errors in Vegas. I probably don't have to actually delete the project's unused content - it's just force of habbit. Certainly, every time I have to split a project due to memory errors, it requires a whole bunch of unused content to be deleted.

Thanks for the heads up - I will post the result!

Cheers,
Jason
entilza72 wrote on 9/3/2009, 2:55 AM
Hi all,

As expected, the 6 channel wav solution has worked a charm and allowed me to join my multiple renders into one veg file, without the need for nesting vsg files (due to crashing from 32 bit mem problems).

Thanks again!
Jason
johnmeyer wrote on 9/3/2009, 8:40 AM
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so I apologize if this isn't the right answer to the problem, but if you have rendered multiple MPEG-2 and AC-3 files, and if they are all the same (i.e., the MPEG-2 are all 29.97 and the AC-3 files are all 5.1), then you can have DVDA merge them together so they all play seamlessly from one to the next. The "trick" is to create a "Music Compilation" and then drop the files into that compilation. The only downside is that you can only have chapter stops at the boundaries where one MPEG-2/AC3 joins with the next set of files (i.e., you cannot have chapter marks within MPEG-2 files in a Music Compilation).