I agree with you, but my solutions are with a different approach. My suggestion was to make track inserts pre/post volume selectable. That might not fix your problem if you want to use the Event volume curves, also referred to "Event ASR", but it would fix it if you used the volume envelopes. Another thing is that I think it would be nice to be able to add envelope points onto those Event ASR's, because you're right they are handy but just not as functional as the volume envelope.

I suppose the flip side of this is if you used something like a delay (repeats rather than offset) an it was prefade you'd end up with the effect continuing through the fade.

So Red, did you mean a global pre/post switch on the track fx chain, or being able to split the fx chain into pre and post sections, which would let you use dynamics (pre) and fx (post) within the same chain without either being spoiled by event ASR envelopes? I think this would be the best way - a fixed point in the fx chain around which you organise the plugs - before the point is pre and after post event Gain..

I think this would be the least confusing option.

Do you have Sound Forge v7.0? What I was thinking is that there is a volume adjustment within sound forge, and within the chainer you can put FX's either pre fader or post fader volume envelope.

Actually, I found something really cool by mistake, and my suggestion is already in Vegas v4.0. I think maybe even Sony isn't aware of this feature. If you have Sound Forge 7.0 installed, create a plugin chain with the Sound Forge volume slider. You can open this chain in Vegas and the Volume slider appears in the chainer. The nice thing is that the Volume slider is automatible within Vegas and you can place FX's on either side of the volume slider. It comes up in Vegas within the chain as "unregistered", but seems to work like a charm. You can even create multiple Volume sliders within the chain in sound forge and place multiple automatable volume controls in Vegas. I'm sure you can even do this with the Pan Slider from Sound Forge, which might even help Pipeline with the stereo bus routing problems. Awesome!!!!

I think at the time SF7 came out I was thinking "well, automation envelopes are great, I have always thought it would make sense (non-destructive editing for a stereo editor), but at the same time I can do that in Vegas."

So I'm still with SF6, fixing damage audio (that little pencil is a life saver!), cleaning up and toping & tailing, pretty much everything I need it to do - I'll almost certainly go for SF8 though. Was also interested in the timed recording in 7, and the Undo history save (for Vegas5 perhaps... I don't expect you to say a thing ;-)

So I don't have the volume slider (well I couldn't find it in SF6 ne way). But I can always use the comp out gain to much the same effect I guess. It means I can have a track based delay, and snap out the volume but leave the delays to decay naturally - cool. Thanks for pointing this out! (I know this can be done with FX busses, but...

...this is a great thread. The use of effects pre or post I think is a very important topic for users with less experience. I'm anxious to try some of those tips!

" I'm sure you can even do this with the Pan Slider from Sound Forge, which might even help Pipeline with the stereo bus routing problems. Awesome"

what what waht ?

Ill try this...while we are sorta on the subject of inserts, is there a way to automate bypass of non automateable fx?

"...this is a great thread."

Thanks for the support. I was really worried when I made the post, that maybe I may have phrased something wrong where it might have not come across so nice. Do you think when I asked, "Do you have Sound Forge v7.0?" that maybe I was a bit rude and maybe could have phrased it in a better way?

Uhhh...I was quite sincere when I typed "...this is a great thread."

I can't help but feel like you're being less than sincere when you typed
"Do you think when I asked, "Do you have Sound Forge v7.0?" that maybe I was a bit rude and maybe could have phrased it in a better way?"

I mean, why don't you just come right out and say "Hey cosmo - I think you're an A** HOLE and I'm gonna point that out every chance I get!!!" At least be straight about it.

I'm not really sure what you're problem is red but I'm not gonna start name calling and sh*t with you again. I'm trying to be nice with you in my last several posts that you've been on but you WILL NOT STOP!!!

I smile and say gimme some more red...you're making yourself look quite silly.

"Uhhh...I was quite sincere when I typed "...this is a great thread.""

Exactly!!! We don't need a forum police, where you judge of what's good and what's bad. One post I'm offering information and you're telling me I'm not nice and I'm rude, which I wasn't BTW. The next post you're telling me I'm giving useful information. WHO CARES WHAT THE F**K YOU THINK!? And for your benefit, YES!! I think you're an a$$hole and I'm "quite sincere" and will point that out every chance I get. Obviously, I got no apology for offering information and having you call me a "d*ck". Does that make you feel better coming out and saying it now? Nobody want's a forum police, especially one like you who can't tell the difference between information and being rude. So just keep smiling, and making comments about my posts without offering one bit of helpful information, you have made zero value added to the forum so far, keep up the comments. A**HOLE!!!

Am I the only person in this forum to think this guy is out of line?

I read a post, "thought - wow - that's some good stuff to know!" and just hit back a reply expressing my gratitiude. I'm not policing anything. I don't claim to pass judgement on this forum or any thread in it.

GROW UP RED! We all have to exist in this space, why not try and be nice to each other??? I'm sorry I said you were behaving like a d*ck - if I was wrong about that instance you've proven me right about 12 times since then. Stop being such a baby about. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

There I've apologized, I'm a grown man, I'd like for this to end. I'm sure there are others in here that agree with me when I say PLEASE STOP HARRASSING ME. Enough already. Move on or ignore my username. Whatever you have to do to get over bothering me please figure it out for the benefit of everyone!

You're smarter then me, write better music than me, and make much better productions than me. Now please leave me alone.

"Am I the only person in this forum to think this guy is out of line?"

You are out of line, take your own advice and grow up. You are the one who is "HARRASSING" me. You come in dictating and singling ME out and spouting YOUR OPINION of MY posts. That is Harassment dumbass, get it straight. I never got personal with you until you decided to jump on your soapbox and attack me. You can see how insincere your apology is."You're smarter then me, write better music than me, and make much better productions than me. Now please leave me alone." You seem to keep offering me advice to ignore you. Why not take your own advice for once, if I've been causing you so much grief? I'll tell you why, you might f**kin learn something. So yeah, keep spongin off of my information and criticizing me and calling me names, if I don't present it the way YOU THINK is appropriate.


"Am I the only person in this forum to think this guy is out of line?"

Yeah, rally up the troops you can't defend yourself, that might take some intelligence. You come out throwing punches at me, calling names and now you want support from others because you can't handle the heat. I'm sure you'll get some support too, because they'll look at this thread and take it out of context, without even seeing your previous attacks, just as you have done with other threads of mine.

I made one attack, because you deserved it. I guess you think you're hurting my feelings or something...got me. This is all so childish....

And I'm not trying to rally the troops - they're supposed to be your troops according to your godliness.

I've tried to quell this but it isn't working. Just f*ck off man...No one cares!

"I made one attack, because you deserved it."

There it is again, YOUR OPINION. I deserved it? I offer information to help out a user and I deserve for you to attack me? LOL!!! You're pretty dillusional aren't you? Well, I guess the same holds for you now, when I start throwing mud back. "because you deserved it". You made your own bed, now sleep in it. Don't expect other users to come jump in it with you.

whatever man. At least I'm trying to desist.

cosmo, you havent even begun to dip into the rednroll pool. Go back for the last few years in these forums since vegas has been out, and witness the epic battles between us, and victor/irvin/gomez and the now deceased JoeD.

Rednroll is an obstinate ass, but on a few subjects he knows what he's talking about. Furthermore he is a cornerstone of this forum and it would no longer exist without him.

Utter the serenity prayer each time before you browse this forum, buy a punching bag, and make your peace within you.

Resistance is futile

Well said Pipe. That actually reminded me of how this all started for me. Little history story for you. When I first started coming to these Sonic Foundry/Sony forums there was someone in here that EVERYONE hated to deal with. That was "Big Baddy Vic" ie Victor, ie Irwin Gomez. Now this guy, would bad mouth Everyone, Bad Mouth Vegas, and he was always the instigator. The thing, I noticed from reading Victor's posts was that he actually had "some" knowledge behind them, and most of the users in here where pretty much newbies to audio. Well, I had a little more experience and could easily see when Victor was spouting B.S. So, instead of resorting to name calling like everyone else did.....which Victor seemed to enjoy. I called him on the B.S. he was spouting and soon brought his credibility down to nothing. Victor woud come in a say something like "you dumb A**, that's not how it works any five year old can tell you that, it works like this..this...and that..you dumb moron." Then I would come in and tell him how it really worked and pointed out everything that was wrong in his post with factual backing data. I further was also visiting the Nuendo forums and saw a common personality in there, but he went under the name "Irwin Gomez". Well it just happens ole baddy Vic was in the SF forums bad mouthing Vegas and saying how Nuendo was a Pro app and we where a bunch of wannabee engineers for using Vegas, and then he was at the Nuendo forum saying the exact opposite. Soon I was quoting posts from both forums showing not only he didn't know what he's talking about, but he actually contradicts himself also. Well, eventually Victor gave up because what he was dishing out, eventually came back at him tenfold.

I'll tell you Cosmo, I very rarely instigate a flamewar. The thing you have to realize is that people in this industry are usually in it because they're passionate about their work. They love music, they love being creative, they love audio and want to understand how everything works so they can be even more creative. If they weren't passionate about it, then why would they be on a forum talking shop in their freetime? It's because it's not only their profession, it is probably also one of their hobbies. Well, given all that sometimes people get pretty upset when they give information which they've heard from a friend who, who heard it from a friend who....and have experienced something similar, and now it's become fact and true to their heart and I come in and have to tell them, well you're actually wrong and this is the reason why. I think, I'm doing a better service to the forum to break that chain of "heard it from a friend who" keeping it from eventually becoming facts throughout the industry. There are many things like this that happen in this industry, where something may be false, but if you get enough people believing that information then somehow it becomes true. I'm passionate about this audio stuff too. It's my carreer and my hobby. When I hear some information, I won't take it as fact until it makes total sense to me of why it's working that way. I will usually dig in and do a lot more reading, until all the grey fuzzy areas are cleared up. I enjoy doing that, like I said it's my hobby and I really enjoy learning about this stuff. I work with a building full of engineers who are very audio intelligent. Among them they refer to me as a walking audio encyclopedia. They'll ask me things like, "what's the speed of sound." I'll come back and say, "would you like me to factor in the relative humity variable, or do you just want the 1128 ft/sec. functional answer?" I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I'm just telling you, If you come in and start flaming me and then think you're just going to walk away from it, you'll find me pointing out how inaccurate your information is on every post you make afterwards. You try and belittle me, you're going to get belittled back. You've seen some of those posts from me. What you may not have seen was the original post where I was attacked, because they got upset with what I replied and instead of having a reasonble debate or agree to disagree discussion, they resort to name calling. Well, that's what anyone does who doesn't have the knowledge behind their opinion. So you're only seeing half the picture, where I may actually look like I'm starting it. They're just getting hunted down, just like big baddy Vic did. Like John Rambo said though, "They drew first blood." Sorry, if it upsets you when you see me put my fist in their chest and rip their heart out afterwards.

"but on a few subjects he knows what he's talking about."

WHAT?!!! A "few" subjects?!!! Only a few!? That's it I'm dropping the gloves, I'm not gonna put up with that sh*t!!!! Lol :-)

Actually, one of my new hobbies I'm adicted too is online gaming with my Sony PS2 and playing SOCOM II. So, if you really want to take a piece out of Rednroll, meet me there. You can actually come back into the forum and tell every "you killed Rednroll". Look for my username "Rednroll". My rank is a captain which means I'm in the Top 5% online players, so you best be bringing your best stuff. :-)

hey vic ruled, a good counterbalance to fanatical pie in the sky types

I think we all need to put all the known vic aliases on the table and find out where he's gone to.

So far we have Victor, Omegdisk, Gomez, and Irvin, am I missing any ?

And everyone knows, audio guys play Gloom www.planetgloom.com, and guess who's doing the audio for gloom 3 ? :)

"am I missing any ?"
Well, he's the only one I ever knew that actually got booted from the forum and had to weekly make a new name sometimes. So I'm sure there's a few more.

Pipeline - thanks for the reality check.

I'd like to clear something up here Red. I'm very aware of your intelligence man, probably more so then you think. At the same time, I'm aware of my intelligence, I'm no dummy. And I don't think I've been posting bad advice to anyone, I've only posted my experiences. You called me on all that IRQ crap and I backed it. You called me on the ASIO thing and I agreed with you. I'm not here to bicker with you.

To me, it sounds like we are more alike than we are different. You came in here and saw some other guy being a jerk and you called him on it. I came in here and thought you were being a jerk so I called you on it. The only difference in our paths is that you were calling that guy out on being and jerk AND not knowing too much(it sounds like from your post). Me, I never said you didn't know what you were talking about - on the contrary - I've made it a point to state that you give great advice, and I've done that more than once. I just called you on being a jerk -)

So you see...maybe we're more alike than we might want to believe. Neither of us can keep our mouths(fingers) shut in these situations. Big deal. Can we just call a truce or something?

Safeway supermarkets have this new "safeway select" peppermint tea. It has no caffeine, and an unbelieveable soothing effect on some people's stomachs.

Drink a cup when you enter these forums. You will never make any sense of where rednroll is coming from, its not even worth trying anymore. Sometimes you think "jeezus christ I hope SF isnt taking any cues from this guy", other times (admittedly very rarely) you think " man Im glad this guy is here to back me up"

My microwave can brew my tea in 2 minutes 10 seconds, thats a LOT quicker than it takes me to get these forums out of my head otherwise.

Dude....you are f'n killing me. These forums can stick in your head sometimes, same sh*t happens to me. You like green tea, I like green something else...all good. Actually, I think red and I have like reached some kind of unrealistic place where we're not trying to wage ww3 on each other anymore. Scary as it may be there are things in common between he and I.

Anyways...I was thinking that someone should start a thread so users can post links to their actual work. I'm tired of hearing about everyone's work...I want hear the real thing! Mine are all here. I want to hear what all of you guys with killer studios are making. I need something to measure my stuff against besides commercial cds. Hmmmm....maybe someone will do that.

weve been trying to find a way to do just that. The acid guys have acidplanet.com, what about us vegas guys? When local bands come in they have NO qualms about posting some of their stuff on the net, bigger releases would be a problem you can imagine, but at least the smaller stuff would be fun to put up.