it was footage from a DVX100 @ 25p

Now Vegas reads and displays this as progressive, so the p tags are being read properly.

I dont know why im getting artefects though...

maybe it really is time for a Vegas Rehaul... There are just SO MANY little things that need fixing...

"I dont know why im getting artefects though... "

I do. If you start with 25p and slomo that you can render it to 50i or 25PsF and most certainly get interlaced video complete with combing artifacts. The project NOT render settings determine this.
Some things to keep in mind.
1) The DVX100 records 25PsF, not 25p. That means each frame is split across 2 fields. It is progressive as there's no temporal separation. The fields can be merged with no artifacts.
2) You are changing the timing of the video, you'll produce an image sequence with a different timing, so yes you can and by the sound of it have produced interlaced video and it's very likely to be pretty horrid interlacing. How Vegas processes the video is determined by the project settings when it comes to progressive V Interlaced. In other words, with Vegas you can have all P video on the T/L and output P but have interlaced artifacts in that P footage.
If you doubt what I'm saying try doing some simple animation of say text in Vegas. Vegas will always calculate the motion as interlaced regardless of what the render settings are. It uses the project settings to determine how to render things that it creates. SloMo would be no exception. You have to set your project properties to Field Order None (Progressive) to force internal processing to progressive. Vegas isn't the only NLE with this gotcha, I've had quite a few clips come my way that were shot on film as 25p but had motion graphics added that were 50i.
3) 25p is not supported on tape, only 25PsF. For some reason Vegas will not produce a tape with the P flag set, well we've only tried with HDV so I can't say for certain that it will not do it in SD.

Bob.

I do. If you start with 25p and slomo that you can render it to 50i or 25PsF and most certainly get interlaced video complete with combing artifacts. The project NOT render settings determine this.
Some things to keep in mind.

((Hmmm... PsF u say? I dont ever recall teh DVX having segmented frames.. I was always of a mind that it was using a 2:2 pulldown (PAL) of full frame capture streamed through a field doubled 50i stream with the second field trashed upon playback. This is what all teh documentation reads abotu how the DVX manages progressive footage within an interlaced stream..
Dunno bout the ditching bit, but there was a big write up on the DVX brochure about the 2:2 pulldown. ))


"1) The DVX100 records 25PsF, not 25p. That means each frame is split across 2 fields. It is progressive as there's no temporal separation. The fields can be merged with no artifacts."

Yah.. as for what its called, maybe theyve come out with a new name to describe the actual nuance, but as far as i am aware, its actual progressive scan not frame based on 2 variable (split) fields (like the JVC which DOES work this way)
In any case, it makes no difference as its cosnidered Progressive so it shoudl be treated as such, regardless of how its acquired IMO))

"2) You are changing the timing of the video, you'll produce an image sequence with a different timing, so yes you can and by the sound of it have produced interlaced video and it's very likely to be pretty horrid interlacing."
Horrid is an understatement. However even by changing the timing (be it duration or frame allocation/placement within the new sequence) interlacing shoudl NOT play a part of this.
THe project is set to field order NONE. Deinterlacing is turned off, but even if i turn it on, it makes no difference.
In any case, Interlacing shoudlnt have a par tin any of this.
The new gap filling frames shoudl in fact be interpolated frames based on the previous and future frame.
Its that simple... If Vegas cannot do this, (and by the sounds and LOOKS if it, it cannot) then some serious re-engineering is required.
Consideirng were now moving into higher res displays with 1080p delivery, i would like to think that this is on top of their list of priorities.
I can most certainly guarantee that 90% of wedding guys wnating to offer 1080p to their client WILL NOT accept this kind of motion within a slowmotion scene cosnidering they rely on Slowmo for ALOT of what they do...
Wedding guys WILL jump ship.. believe me.. ))

How Vegas processes the video is determined by the project settings when it comes to progressive V Interlaced. In other words, with Vegas you can have all P video on the T/L and output P but have interlaced artifacts in that P footage.

((WHy would that happen? I cannot fathom why interlacing would have anythign to do with progressive save for teh transport stream it sits in. Which in the perfect workd, shoudl nto affect image quality whatsoever. Be it slowmotion or normal. There is absolutely no reference to interlacing in any of this project and i find it amazing to hear this because it proves that despite the SUPPORT for progressive, the flexibility (or lack of) to manipulate said progressive footage veririfes the fact that its not only limited in its capacity with this material, but also, after so many years, still requires a substantial amount of work.
One woudl think that after 8 builds, one entire rebuild, numerous updates and additions etc, that we could manipulate progressive footage in much teh same way we can with interlacd.
Obviously this is not the case..
Im jsut hoping somethign is done becuase i cannot work with a tool which compromises my image quality ))

"If you doubt what I'm saying try doing some simple animation of say text in Vegas. Vegas will always calculate the motion as interlaced regardless of what the render settings are. "

((Why woud lit do this? Memory efficiency? ))


It uses the project settings to determine how to render things that it creates. SloMo would be no exception. You have to set your project properties to Field Order None (Progressive) to force internal processing to progressive.

((this has already been set though... there are no references interlaced whatsoever.. ))

"Vegas isn't the only NLE with this gotcha, I've had quite a few clips come my way that were shot on film as 25p but had motion graphics added that were 50i.
3) 25p is not supported on tape, only 25PsF. For some reason Vegas will not produce a tape with the P flag set, well we've only tried with HDV so I can't say for certain that it will not do it in SD."

((strange you say this.. ive exported to tape and reimported and it looks and moves liek 25p... ill need to check this in any case.. ))

thanks for ur time Bob, muchly appreciated...

heres hoping something is done soon..
For DV were jsut scraping through, but once 1080p starts rolling, then it will def be an issue..

25PsF is the same thing as 2:2 pulldown. A full frame is aquired and split into two fields in a 50i stream. Done because the DV spec only allows fields. As you said they can be merged back into one field losslessly. So it's just two ways of saying the same thing.

HDV is the same BTW. Only Canon cameras record 24p, all the others do 24PsF60 or 25PsF. That's why no VCR will play Canon's progressive scan tapes.

The project setting determine how Vegas does some things, like interpolation. That's why I said even if your source is progressive you can still get interlaced output. Take a still image, doesn't get any more progrssive than that. Now use track/event pan crop to move it around the screen. If your project setting are UFF or LFF it'll calculate fields, in 50Hz projects you'll get 50i. Now when it comes to rendering it out I think you'll find if your output is progressive it'll use the project de-interlace method to convert the interlaced interpolation of the motion to produce the progressive output. Nothing is broken, it's doing what we tell it to, you just have to be very conscious of what you're telling it to do.

If you had the project set to Field Order None when you did the slomo then all should be sweet. However I've forgotten to change that many times and caused myself a lot of head scratching.

Bob.