Something weird from Vegas 4 and Soundforge 6?

PipelineAudio wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:19 PM
Am I the only one, or did anyone else notice a huge jump in stickyness, glitchiness, and a decrease in speed and stability big time with the release of Vegas 4 and sound forge 6? Same with sf7 and vegas 5?

I am still trying to work thru my issues, and our Nuendo guy came over and BLEW ME AWAY with the power of my PC. It was running tracks till I didnt bother adding any more, same with plugins. No trouble from the UAD-1, no trouble with the mackie control. And we were able to record more than 16 tracks at once, with input on ( NOT ASIO DM mind you),a headphone mix buss and FX on the inputs

In Vegas 5 with input monitoring on I could run 4 tracks simultaneously, no fx, no extra busses

Vegas 3 SMOKED nuendo in track count and stability. What happened?

Anyone else see the same thing or is this me being crazy again like with the event fade anaomalies?

Comments

Former user wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:52 PM
Pipe,

I thought SF6 was okay operation wise but I bailed on it over a year ago and moved over to Wavelab.

However - I did find that Vegas 4 was a real dog in the "UI feel" department. Up to about two months ago - I was running a 2.53 GHZ P4 for a GB of RAM and I remember doing some simple 12 track radio promos in Vegas 4 and it was horrible zooming and generally moving around as the tracks started to pile up. Your "stickiness" description was exactly what I encounted.

However - last summer I moved my facility over to Nuendo 2.0 for all my production projects and Nuendo simply blows Vegas away power wise and feel wise using the very same hardware.

My "A" studio has a 3.2 GB hyperthreaded P4 with 1.5GB of RAM and Nuendo just flys thru everything I do. I also do not believe I have experienced a crash with it yet.

I have the Vegas 5 trial on board now and while it feel a bit snappier, I haven't had a chance to really pile up the tracks....but I know exactly where you are coming from....I do not think you are crazy at all....

Cheers,

Cuzin B
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:59 PM
How in the world are you handling editing in nuendo?

We are probably going to buy that EDL convert pro this week so I can do some tasks in Nuendo and some tasks in Vegas. Is there a big problem with doing that?

Can it remember fx and such? I mean I dont want to jump back and forth for editing only to find that I lose all my mix settings
larry-peter wrote on 5/17/2004, 1:04 PM
Every time I've upgraded to the newest version of Vegas (since 1.0) I've had to buy a speedier machine. I'm awfully loyal to the speed of the Vegas interface in general, but as far as track count goes, Nuendo smokes it. Like you, I got tired of adding tracks to see where it would choke. For me, it all started when SF made the decision to "combine" Vegas Audio and Video. I don't like working in Nuendo but I sure wish Sony would take a turn back to the Vegas Audio days and split the audio/video apps up. It has to be the code for video functions that's bogging us audio guys down.
Former user wrote on 5/17/2004, 3:51 PM
Pipe,

No problem for what I do. Hell - I can do almost everything radio promo wise right in the project window. If I need more finer control, I just have Nuendo fire the file out to WL and go to town there.

Your editing workflow within Vegas is legendary around these parts - but I don't really think that Nuendo is missing very much if anything vs Vegas for editing. I could be totally missing the boat but - I am always interested to learn more about how you work and what you you do in Vegas vs what can be done in Nuendo.

Plus - call me crazy - but any mix from Nuendo just kills my mixes from Vegas. It just sounds light years better.

Cuzin B
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/20/2004, 3:46 PM
"Plus - call me crazy - but any mix from Nuendo just kills my mixes from Vegas. It just sounds light years better"

I wouldnt call it crazy! In situations where Vegas' stability is not an issue (where I dont need to do too many edits for example, or when a band is not pre-enamoured of specific fx), which happens often enough, I notice the sound of my mix is MUCH better and I can really focus on sonics, as opposed to the times when I am fighting vegas every inch of the way.

Even with all my troubles in Vegas 5, I am getting better sounding mixes just because I can compare two faders or more at a time with the Mackie Control! I think all of us Vegas users have probably gotten pretty good at GUESSING what the results will be when we make a move, but that guess is no comparison to the hands on tactile control Vegas 5 gives us.

One more thing, with that ASIO DM in nuendo, I could see using outboard gear constantly as a no brainer. Even better, I gave Samplitude a try and they allow even in ASIO DM to send to multiple busses, auxes at the same time, still using the ASIO DM mixer. This is the be all end all configuration and I hope we are treated to it in Vegas soon! In this way, without even a real hit on the cpu, you can monitor with no latency as many tracks as your card supports, and still send out to hardware gear, and make SERIOUS cue mixes, with every bit being controlled by the mackie control ( or other controller) and record as many tracks as you normally would when you werent using input monitoring. That setup is unbelieveable.

Yet it also cannot touch Vegas for the editing I need to do

" I am always interested to learn more about how you work and what you you do in Vegas vs what can be done in Nuendo.
"

Well this is the scenario that I murdered my Nuendo pals in. I would say have three tom mic close mic tracks. Knowing that today's crappy drummers will invariably hit the drums so poorly that every drum BESIDES the tom will be louder than the tom in the tom mic, a gate is unuseable. So I will:
1. zoom in on the tom tracks (mouse wheel in Vegas),

2. use the normal edit tool to split about 20mS in front of a tom hit,

3. let the body of the om go by,

4. then start fading out the tom track to a split usually one or two snare hits after the tom hit.

5. Dekete the space before the first tom hit split

6. Lather rinse repeat.

All this while using the normal edit tool, and all while being able to click anywhere in the arrange window to set my playback cursor, and able to zoom in and out with my mouse wheel.

Trying this in Nuendo brought up some very strange problems. One tool CAN split by alt clicking, yet that same tool cannot set the playback cursor position except by clicking in the timeline. Like you could do it between two different tools, but their function wouldnt allow the same tool to set the playback cursor, split the track, set the fade handles, and delete objects. You had to keep switching back and forth. I MURDERED our Nuendo guy in this test. But it was a trade off in the amazing ASIO DM performance of Nuendo.

I need more to edit than anything else, and I am confident that some year we will get a vegas that can pump its muscles in every direction.
Former user wrote on 5/20/2004, 6:14 PM
"Trying this in Nuendo brought up some very strange problems. One tool CAN split by alt clicking, yet that same tool cannot set the playback cursor position except by clicking in the timeline. Like you could do it between two different tools, but their function wouldnt allow the same tool to set the playback cursor, split the track, set the fade handles, and delete objects. You had to keep switching back and forth. I MURDERED our Nuendo guy in this test. But it was a trade off in the amazing ASIO DM performance of Nuendo."

Under File->Preferences-Transport (assuming you are running N2) - Simply choose Locate When clicked in Empty Space. This will allow the cursor to be set anywhere when you click in the Project Window within an empty space.

I agree the mouse wheel could be used much better within N2 but after you set up a few Zoom Presets...the wheel becomes old hat in about 2 seconds.

Here's a question - how the heck do I select data in a single track in Vegas? I come from the Soundforge/Wavelab/Nuendo world where I can take my range tool/cursor and simply drag over a section of a single track, highlight it and do something with it. In Vegas - I can't put my arrow tool inside a single track and highlight some content. Or is my only choice to highlight the range along the top (time ruler?) If I have ten or twenty tracks in my project....this method is really annoying since the selection area goes right thru all the tracks and if I haven't selected the right one...I don't know what I am going to get. Perhaps I just am not making the connection but this seems really awkward to my way of working.

Update when you can,

Cuzin B