Sony AVCHD: good files and bad files

Jeff B wrote on 6/28/2008, 2:14 PM
Everything I shoot with my Sony HDR-CX7 is easily transfered onto my computer, and easily loaded and worked with in Vegas Pro 8b... everything but a first file in a multi-file clip. If I shoot a scene longer than 16-17 minutes, necessitating the camcorder put more than one file on the memory card for it, then that first file will always be troublesome. It will either load onto the Vegas timeline as an mpeg-2 audio clip, or it will not load at all. This is a consistent, 100% repeatable problem. All other files have absolutely no problems in Vegas at all, including the subsequent files of a multi-file clip.

The problem files load and run just fine in Nero 8 and Corel VideoStudio, however.

I suspect that the camcorder probably writes something in the header of that first file that Vegas doesn't handle, or misinterprets. It's probably proprietary, it's probably just a bit or a maybe a whole byte... but the fact that Nero and VideoStudio have no trouble with it tells me the files aren't corrupted, and they're intact.

While searching for threads in this forum that might provide some clue as to a possible fix, I came up empty... well, not empty, but certainly not with any answers. So I checked out repeatability, and that's why I'm posting about it. Until today, and based on threads in this forum, I had operated under the assumption that "problem AVCHD files" in Vegas was completely random, and that there's no slightest clue what could possibly cause these things.

Last night, however, I shot two 8gig cards' worth of video straight, for an unbroken two hours of my subject matter. On both, the first file went onto the timeline as an mpeg-2 audio only clip, but the others all loaded fine. So, I did a bunch of multi-file shots today, and with every single one, the first file is troublesome and the rest are not. Some cannot be loaded at all, and some load as audio only, but none of them load as the full video files that can be seen, played, and worked with using Nero or VideoStudio.

After looking through all my backups, I find that the seemingly random troublesome files that I've run across over the past couple of months since I began using Vegas, upon inspection, are also "first file of multi-file clips"... every single one of them.

Comments

blink3times wrote on 6/28/2008, 2:31 PM
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=591224
Jeff B wrote on 6/28/2008, 4:56 PM
B3T, I do understand that there are many instances and examples of a general (but apparently elusive) problem along these lines. The thread you posted a link for obtains no real focus for repeatability in pursuing any troubleshooting. Further, it appears to me that anyone who might be interested in this problem would take the stance that unless a "camcorder to computer ingested file" can be replicated, the experiment repeatable, there's not much to actually discuss in terms of focus upon a solution. The only reason I didn't make my post to that thread is that, in this case, it's a specific and 100% repeatable "bad file" generation under an exact circumstance on a machine that does not have that problem with any other files generated from the same camcorder.

Now, unless you have a Sony HDR-CX7 to test this out with, I fail to see the point of your post.
blink3times wrote on 6/28/2008, 5:13 PM
Yes, well at the time I submitted the issue to the board, we had a few that were simply more interested in being argumentative.... and then a few that were just plain doing their best to deny a problem at all.

But the thread was originally place there to gather statistics on the issue and look for work-arounds. The point is though that most of the failings end up the same way..... audio of one sort or another but no video.... yet the files play/edit/render just fine in other applications.
farss wrote on 6/28/2008, 5:24 PM
We sold off our two CX7s shortly after we bought them. Same for our direct to DVD palmcorders. HC5/7s work with no grief. Our clients use every kind of software out there obviously, AVCHD was just more trouble than it was worth and the images from our HC7s have been used on national television, both docos and drama, pretty much all of it underwater though.

Bob.
Jeff B wrote on 7/2/2008, 5:24 AM
Rather than puzzle over it, I set up this Vista64 machine to dual boot with XP32 (The Sony HDR-CX7 camcorder software won't run on 64 bit platform). I spent a couple days swapping stuff around.

Taking the same full 8gig cards and using the camcorder transfer software, I found out two things.

1. When transfered directly from the card, the files have ".MTS" extension, but when transfered using the camcorder software, the files have ".m2ts" extension.

2. Multiple files within the camcorder that comprise one clip will transfer via the camcorder software into one file onto the computer.

So, the header information in the first file of a multi-file clip on the camcorder, when used directly onto the Vegas Pro 8b timeline apparently is "ingested" by Vegas as an audio mpeg-2 file. The header is re-written by the camcorder software to combine the multiple files, and those files are fine in Vegas.

The point of posting this is simply to inform. It's a specific matter wherein one can use the HDR-CX7 to create AVCHD files that Vegas has trouble "ingesting". The header information in the "bad" files can then very easily be compared with the header information in the "good" files to determine what, exactly, is being mis-read by the Vegas "ingesting" routine... all directly out of the same camcorder.

It's not a canon problem, it's not a third party generation problem, it's a Sony Creative Software problem. And they can now duplicate the problem at their leisure, using a Sony HDR-CX7 camcorder, and thus discover how and why the "ingesting" routine mis-reads these files as mpeg-2 audio.
Marco. wrote on 7/2/2008, 6:29 AM
It is a general rule that AVCHD camera users should use the given import tool to ingest the AVCHD footage - don't take the original .mts files. If them exceed a certain length and are split within the camera the files are not supposed to work in ANY application except the given import tool.

I work with Vegas and the Sony SR7 for more than a half year now and never had any problem.

Marco
Jeff B wrote on 7/2/2008, 11:38 AM
Actually, the only problem I had was that the camcorder software doesn't work on a 64 bit Windows platform, so I had been using the raw files off the camcorder since I bought it. Every once in a while, I got a file that didn't work. Since it's not pro work, I'd just shrug and figure it out later. After all, the files that didn't work in Vegas worked just fine in Nero8 and VideoStudio11.5, so I'd just convert them to HDV.

So far, the time involved with using this camcorder and Vegas is such a HUGE step forward from MediaStudio Pro and mini-DV (which I used for years), that even this little glitchy situation with the occasional "bad file" hardly cut into it.