Sony DVD Handycams...

HoFS wrote on 12/7/2003, 12:54 PM
Has anyone had the opportunity to play with the new DVD models of Sony handycams? I'm about a month away from making a new camcorder purchase and I just saw the DVD models this last weekend. I did a good 2 to 3 hours of research on the sonystyle site and various other retailers to find out as much as I could about the models. But I still have a lot of questions. I even had the luck of meeting a sony rep at Circuit City the other day. But of course he didn't have the answers I wanted. So, here are my questions: First, is the quality that much better than miniDV? Second, and most important, in what format (AVI, MPG,AC3...) does the camcorder "transer" the video and audio to the computer. There is no firewire, only USB. Third, can I just put the DVD into my DVD-rom and copy it (not rip) to my hard drive? Pretty much I'm worried about the quality of the movie getting onto my computer for editing. I also understand that the packaged software for transering and editing the AV is crap... like that surprised me. Would love any comments from those who have one of these models. Thanx up front.

Comments

Softcorps wrote on 12/7/2003, 1:02 PM
If you plan on doing any editing at all, then the DVD camcorders are a really bad idea. The quality is worse than a DV camcorder and will be even worse once you edit the MPEG2 footage from the DVD camcorder and then have to recompress it back to MPEG2. The AC3 audio is also going to be a big issue. Vegas will only export AC3 audio, it will not import it. All things considered, get a good quality DV camcorder with a decent lens. You'll be much happier.

James
Fuzzy John wrote on 12/7/2003, 8:33 PM
I have the DCR-DVD300. All in all you are probably better off getting a DV camcorder in the same price range. I would return mine but it is too late. Here are the answers to your questions:

While I cannot compare the picture quality of the MiniDVD cam with a DV cam I can tell that when playing back the MiniDVDs in my Sony XBR Wega TV the picture is very good (assuming good light). But this is the video recorded by the camera (first generation).

The bundled Pixela software absolutely sucks, so you will have to get something else to do editing. I played with Vegas and with Ulead MediaStudio Pro. Ulead MSP produce a slightly better quality MPEG-2 render than Vegas but it is not as friendly and easy to use. Ulead MSP also can handle the MPEG-2 clips from the camera on the time line including the AC-3 sound. Vegas cannot import the sound from these clips. On top, when I had more than a few MPEG-2 clips in my Media Library the performance of Vegas went down the drain. Switching back to Vegas from the Help window or from a Windows Explorer window took a lot of long minutes on a P4-2.8 GHz HT with 512 MB RAM. Having MPEG-2 clips on the Vegas timeline will also give you lots of black frames. I had to convert all my MPEG-2 clips to AVI Type 2 with PCM sound before I could use these in Vegas.

The cam will only allow you to transfer the files out of it via the USB 2 port. The Sony driver that is installed from the bundled CD will only make the camera visible to the Pixela software. But once I finalized the MiniDVDs I was able to read them in my laptop with Easy CD & DVD Creator installed (including Drag-to-Disk).

The camera can record in 2 modes: DVD-Video which can be recorded on MiniDVD-R and on MiniDVD-RW discs. To view these discs on your home player you have to finalize them. Once you finalize the MiniDVD-R discs you cannot record on them anymore. MiniDVD-RWs can be reformatted though. They can also be unfinalized. DVD-Video puts regular VOB files on the disc. The other recording mode is DVD-VR. This can only be done on RW discs. These discs have to be finalized too if you want to view them on a home DVD player (not all players will handle this format). You can continue recording on these discs without unfinalizing them. In fact, once you finalize a disc in DVD-VR it seems to remain finalize even if you reformat it. DVD-VR puts VRO files on the disc.

To convert the video on these discs I used the Ulead -VR Capture utility. This gave me the MPEG-2 clips which then I converted to AVI Type 2. You can also copy the VOB or VRO files into your computer and even place them on the Vegas timeline but in that case you will not have sound, and since the files are actually MPEG-2 you will get the black frames and generally it will be a royal pain in the ass to edit them.

Post here if you have more questions.
HoFS wrote on 12/8/2003, 1:19 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I'll definately stay with the DV!
rebel44 wrote on 12/8/2003, 9:16 PM
Recording to tape give to you some risk of not recording clear when tape was used many times and heads get dirty, but I take this chance to avid recompresing to AVI. I never capture in MPEG- too messy.
rebel44 wrote on 12/8/2003, 9:20 PM
Just wonder -how many min of video will fit in uncompress AVI format on that minidvd.If you have to film a wedding, better have 10- to 20 minidvd`s.
Depend how soon you get drunk at wedding-you my have to change a tape once.
John_Cline wrote on 12/8/2003, 10:27 PM
rebel44,

Uncompressed NTSC video is 31,072,896 bytes per second (not including 192,000 bytes per second for 48k stereo audio.) You could put about 2.6 minutes of uncompressed video on a standard 4.7 gigabyte DVD.

John
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/8/2003, 11:23 PM
To further John's comment, there is virtually no such thing as uncompressed DV. The letters "DV" immediately call forth a compression of 5:1. There are rare exceptions, but DV is compressed at the camera, period.
I just have to chuckle at how many folks don't get this. Jan Ozer of PC World and other magazines wrote a not-so-good review of Vegas because HE, a writer of reviews on DV, didn't understand the uncompressed formats, and complained how long it took to render to uncompressed from 'uncompressed DV footage."
seeker wrote on 12/9/2003, 2:13 PM
Spot,

OK, you are here, in a virtual sort of way, so I have a couple of questions (I am no expert, so I have a lot of questions, but two for now.)

(1) Doesn't DV automatically compress to 4:1:1? Yet I see talk of 4:2:2 DV. Is there such a thing? What camcorders take it? Presumably Vegas can edit it. And I suppose 4:4:4 video is possible. How about that? (That all counts as one question - grin)

(2) I notice you have said good things about other products elsewhere, like for example Ulead's DVD Workshop 2.0. What MPEG-2 encoder do they use? Main Concept? Incidentally, I notice Main Concept has their own video editors, like Main Actor v5, MainConcept EVE, and MainVision (for "high-end compositing"). It would appear that for quite some time Main Concept has been in direct competition with Sonic Foundry/Sony Media Software. Any comments on that competition for Vegas? That all also counts as one question. (grin)

-- Seeker -- (how come Jan Ozer isn't a girl?)